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If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
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Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... n-biofuels

Personally I do not think that we should worry. They were never as green as proclaimed. Just a load of greenwashing.
Author:  l3v1ck [ Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
+1
What a load of rubbish.
Bring on Hydrogen fuel calls!
Author:  LaptopAcidXperience [ Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
I've said this before but it's becoming more and more apparent that the whole green thing is just [LIFTED] designed to prolong the life of oil for the heavy industries still dependent on them and squeeze as much money out of it as possible.

You'll notice that the majority of stuff we're encouraged to recycle uses a huge amount of oil driven industry to produce it ie glass, plastics, paper, steel.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for a proper green world, but as long as it's still acceptable for nappies and what not to go in landfills pollute possible farming land and the water table there's no real balance.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
LaptopAcidXperience wrote:
I've said this before but it's becoming more and more apparent that the whole green thing is just [LIFTED] designed to prolong the life of oil for the heavy industries still dependent on them and squeeze as much money out of it as possible.

Actually that is a very good reason to be green. Cheap oil is running out.

Biofuels were not as green as they claimed. They suited the agricultural lobby who wanted more subsidises. The best bio fuel is chip fat but there are simply not enough chippies to run the nation. It is simply a niche market.
Author:  LaptopAcidXperience [ Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
Amnesia10 wrote:
LaptopAcidXperience wrote:
I've said this before but it's becoming more and more apparent that the whole green thing is just bullsh!t designed to prolong the life of oil for the heavy industries still dependent on them and squeeze as much money out of it as possible.

Actually that is a very good reason to be green. Cheap oil is running out.


I'm not suggesting we don't recycle but current measures are merely a finger in the dyke, everything in our lives should be recyclable and sustainable.

Most of all, fu*k oil, we need to move on from it now, we need rapid implementation of a variety of sustainable fuels sources, people should be encouraged (subsidised) to produce their own electricity even grow their own food, perhaps even form local collectives to trade goods of course then you'd be bypassing the economy and governmental control (via money) not to mention all those greedy corporations.

But hey, just stick to putting coke cans in the plastic box your local council gave you so it can sell the sh!t to china and not reduce your council tax bill.
Author:  belchingmatt [ Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
Amnesia10 wrote:
Biofuels were not as green as they claimed. They suited the agricultural lobby who wanted more subsidises. The best bio fuel is chip fat but there are simply not enough chippies to run the nation. It is simply a niche market.

There is a biofuel car near me with a sticker saying 'Save the planet, eat more chips.'
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
Quote:
If biofuels go, should we mourn them?


short answer, no …
Author:  eddie543 [ Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
Alot of people have forgotten that biofuels derived from agricultural products have been exceptionally damaging to food markets and have driven up food prices globally. The provlem with food prices rising abnormally is that there are many people alot poorer than we are in this country and biofuels will have pushed them over the brink.
taking food from the poor to put in a westerners car engine so the self righteous 5% of the population that actually give a crap about AGW can feel smug, satified and a slight bit less guilty every time they fill up. Even thogh the nitrous oxide emissions actually add more to a supposed AGW threat.

"Green" products are rife with hipocrisy: CFL light bulbs with about 4mg of mercury per lightbulb, the Toyota pious that in terms of net CO2 emissions is acually more carbon intensive and would be better if the owner had kept their previous car for 10-20 years (rather than changing car every 3 years), the toyota pious again for kilos of toxic batteries, biofuels for them creating food price inflation that will probably damage people more in their time than AGW ever MAY do, biofuels agian for having greater net contribution of green house gases and many more coming.
Author:  JJW009 [ Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
LaptopAcidXperience wrote:
people should be encouraged (subsidised) to produce their own electricity

I heard on the wireless a few weeks ago that there is a scheme to pay people to generate their own electric. Not only can you sell it back to the grid, but they actually pay a subsidy for every unit you generate and use yourself.

Googling, it would appear to be called "FIT" and comes into practice this April.

http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/n ... 0_010.aspx
Author:  eddie543 [ Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
JJW009 wrote:
LaptopAcidXperience wrote:
people should be encouraged (subsidised) to produce their own electricity

I heard on the wireless a few weeks ago that there is a scheme to pay people to generate their own electric. Not only can you sell it back to the grid, but they actually pay a subsidy for every unit you generate and use yourself.

Googling, it would appear to be called "FIT" and comes into practice this April.

http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/n ... 0_010.aspx

Ye all three parties have feed in meters in their manifesto
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
JJW009 wrote:
LaptopAcidXperience wrote:
people should be encouraged (subsidised) to produce their own electricity

I heard on the wireless a few weeks ago that there is a scheme to pay people to generate their own electric. Not only can you sell it back to the grid, but they actually pay a subsidy for every unit you generate and use yourself.

Googling, it would appear to be called "FIT" and comes into practice this April.

http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/n ... 0_010.aspx

Yes there is such a scheme but two current problems, currently the power companies do not have to pay you a fair price so there is going to be a change in the law to make it so that they will reimburse you at the same prices as the energy they sell you. If you generated 1 MWhr and used 1 MWhr you could still end up owing the company. The change in law will mean that they have to give you the same prices as they charge you.

Second problem is that in order to generate electricity you need to spend a lot of money on a new power generating boiler or windmill etc.
Author:  JJW009 [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
Amnesia10 wrote:
Second problem is that in order to generate electricity you need to spend a lot of money on a new power generating boiler or windmill etc.

Hence the subsidy. 10p per unit is quite a lot.
Author:  ProfessorF [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
I thought the beaurocracy involved was almost prohibitive for the mere mortal?
For some reason the energy companies are funny about people hooking things up to the grid and pumping juice back into it - there's all sorts of hoops to jump through. Not a simple process at all, from what I recall.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: If biofuels go, should we mourn them?
Apart from any bureaucracy they had few people who did it.
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