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Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6276		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  pcernie [ Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8514767.stm

And that's before you consider the further tethering of millions of pensions to the 'eco-friendly, powered by whispers' stock market :evil:
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
VAT rises to 20% and extended to items that are VAT free at this time, NI to increase to a least 12% maybe higher, tax thresh holds to remain the same for the life of the next parliament and that's not including massive cuts in public spending along with pay freezes/cuts reduced hours in the private sector

the black holes in the pension market 9BN for BT and 22BN for the public sector and many other pensions pots that just will not survive
and let us not forget council tax rises, energy costs rises, fuel tax and any other (so called) green taxes they think they can get away with along with/and/or any underinvestment that the private sector has done (to increase profits) that will have too rely on public taxes to renew the privately owned infrastructure that will need upgrading for the benefit of the entire nation of taxpayers which we all need and rely on

all this will happen after the next GE regardless who is in power/elected
you thought the last year or so was bad get ready for much much worse
fully supported by our banking system that will still get massive bonuses off of our backs

but we will still have our banking/investment/financial sectors to relay on to get us all out of this mess, don't we

welcome to the leading 2nd world nation on the planet …
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
Are these are the same economists that did not see the crisis coming?

Quote:
Shadow chancellor George Osborne said Prime Minister Gordon Brown's "argument on the deficit had collapsed".

Well he is going to make the 1980 recession look like a walk in the park. :shock:

Since New Labour have been using the same economic policies as the Conservatives which got us into this mess in the first place I cant see what the Conservatives can do apart savage spending cuts which will throw hundreds of thousands on the dole. I have not heard a single suggestion of an increase in capital gains taxes which would raise billions and be fairly easy to get. It can be avoided by simply not selling the asset. It was asset bubbles that got the US, UK, Netherlands and the PIIGS into serious trouble.
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
Amnesia10 wrote:
Are these are the same economists that did not see the crisis coming?

Quote:
Shadow chancellor George Osborne said Prime Minister Gordon Brown's "argument on the deficit had collapsed".

Well he is going to make the 1980 recession look like a walk in the park. :shock:

Since New Labour have been using the same economic policies as the Conservatives which got us into this mess in the first place I cant see what the Conservatives can do apart savage spending cuts which will throw hundreds of thousands on the dole. I have not heard a single suggestion of an increase in capital gains taxes which would raise billions and be fairly easy to get. It can be avoided by simply not selling the asset. It was asset bubbles that got the US, UK, Netherlands and the PIIGS into serious trouble.


PIIGS is the harbinger of doom for the UK economy …
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
All the PIIGS have had two things in common. The Euro but that was not the cause of their problems. Though a related reason was. Because they were part of the Euro they had much lower interest rates than their economies could have coped with. That brings us to the real reason for their similarity. They all had property booms funded with cheap money. The governments failed to rein in this boom because it suited them. The same applied to the UK.
Author:  eddie543 [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
Amnesia10 wrote:
Well he is going to make the 1980 recession look like a walk in the park. :shock:


Hardly we have a much higher marginal living standard than those in the 1980 recession coupled with widespread safety net beinifits. So it doesn't actually affect people ability to sustain body and mind as much as it did in the 1980 recession.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
Yes the benefits safety net is very helpful. It will help us considerably as a nation. The US will have horrendous problems because their benefits expire after a while. Even so years on the dole can have a detrimental impact on peoples health and mental wellbeing.

As for us been much wealthier that is debatable. We have considerably higher debts alongside the rise in house prices. And much of that increase in wealth has been channeled towards the very richest already, as in the US. Low paid work is no better off in real terms as real effective inflation has been higher than the headline rates, which effect minimum wage rates.
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
Amnesia10 wrote:
All the PIIGS have had two things in common. The Euro but that was not the cause of their problems. Though a related reason was. Because they were part of the Euro they had much lower interest rates than their economies could have coped with. That brings us to the real reason for their similarity. They all had property booms funded with cheap money. The governments failed to rein in this boom because it suited them. The same applied to the UK.


The other issue they PIIGS have is that they are tied to the Euro

They can’t let their currency devalue – like we have with the pound
They can’t raise / lower interest rates to match their circumstances

That was always the problems with being in it

As for us – who ever get in will have to slash public spending and I don’t think you can ring fence anything, inc the NHS.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
The US has recessions in different parts of the country all the time. This has been the first time in decades that property prices have fallen nation wide. In the past they had booms on one state and a recession in another. In the US you have a number of states close to default such as California. Yet they cannot print money or devalue. The same applies within the Eurozone. The PIIGS issue is really a way for bankers to bet against the euro and make money for the bank. Also this does lower the euro so makes it easier for them as well.
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
Amnesia10 wrote:
The US has recessions in different parts of the country all the time. This has been the first time in decades that property prices have fallen nation wide. In the past they had booms on one state and a recession in another. In the US you have a number of states close to default such as California. Yet they cannot print money or devalue. The same applies within the Eurozone. The PIIGS issue is really a way for bankers to bet against the euro and make money for the bank. Also this does lower the euro so makes it easier for them as well.


The difference is the US is that they do have a central bank / government with tax raising power
EU does not quite have that yet.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
hifidelity2 wrote:
The difference is the US is that they do have a central bank / government with tax raising power
EU does not quite have that yet.

Yes and they are printing money like crazy, except it is not being invested in the US, everywhere but the US in fact. So what benefit is that?
Author:  eddie543 [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
Amnesia10 wrote:
Yes the benefits safety net is very helpful. It will help us considerably as a nation. The US will have horrendous problems because their benefits expire after a while. Even so years on the dole can have a detrimental impact on peoples health and mental wellbeing.

As for us been much wealthier that is debatable. We have considerably higher debts alongside the rise in house prices. And much of that increase in wealth has been channeled towards the very richest already, as in the US. Low paid work is no better off in real terms as real effective inflation has been higher than the headline rates, which effect minimum wage rates.

Well most houses now have 3 tvs, a gaming console, a computer, the internet, an extensive dvd video collection, two cars and various other things that were invested since 1980 or have become cheaper or more accessable.

Wealth is a difficult word for it but people aren't in absolute poverty anymore most people have more disposable time and disposable income (regardless of whether they amass debts with it.)
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
Amnesia10 wrote:
All the PIIGS have had two things in common. The Euro but that was not the cause of their problems. Though a related reason was. Because they were part of the Euro they had much lower interest rates than their economies could have coped with. That brings us to the real reason for their similarity. They all had property booms funded with cheap money. The governments failed to rein in this boom because it suited them. The same applied to the UK.


not withstanding that we have (UK) a 20% holding/ownership for the Greek Govt debts via their bonds …
Author:  belchingmatt [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
MrStevenRogers wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
All the PIIGS have had two things in common. The Euro but that was not the cause of their problems. Though a related reason was. Because they were part of the Euro they had much lower interest rates than their economies could have coped with. That brings us to the real reason for their similarity. They all had property booms funded with cheap money. The governments failed to rein in this boom because it suited them. The same applied to the UK.


not withstanding that we have (UK) a 20% holding/ownership for the Greek Govt debts via their bonds …


That 20% will probably be used by the elite to escape this country and own another when the sh!t hits the fan (again) here.
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Economists urge swift action to reduce budget deficit
Quote:
Greece refuses EU austerity measures demand


i wonder who will be left to pay the debts … ho hum …

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