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Swedish schools 'will make little difference' 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8520208.stm

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The Tories said the study was flawed and said parents wanted more choice.


Since I probably have spent more time in Swedish schools than any Tory I can say that the Tories are idiots. I spent weeks in schools as part of the family access. Each of the kids could invite a parent for four days per year to school so the parents can discuss with teachers any problems. There is not so much choice on schools until you get to secondary level, but the Swedes like their schools.

Nurseries are practically round the corner. Primary and Junior schools are also very close to where people live. So kids generally walk to school even if they are six. Plus they do not start school till they are six. They start English at six, mainly nursery rhymes. They my have spent two years later than us but by the time the kids are eleven they have caught up.

Free school dinners are the norm and they are very healthy and you can eat as much as you like. No deserts. They just have a main course and krispbreads and cheese. Very few have packed lunches.

The Tories will not like the Swedish model because it costs more. It also means kids not starting school till six, which effectively rejects current government policy.

Choice is not an issue because the standards are so high. When they get to secondary level then they choose depending on what courses they are studying. Plus they are well funded.

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Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:26 am
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Amnesia10 wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8520208.stm
The Tories said the study was flawed and said parents wanted more choice.

There's a very important thing called 'The Illusion of choice'. The Tories may think that's what people want, but in reality, it's not. This is often raised in respect to the NHS but it applies to the education sector too. Fundamentally, nobody other than politicians (because labour think this is a good idea too for pity's sake) thinks having a list of all the hospitals in the UK and being able to choose one 500 miles away to have an operation in, even if it's the best hospital in the UK for that procedure, is a valid choice. It's a theoretical choice but a completely impractical one. People want good care but they also want to be accessible to their relatives for example.

People don't want to be able to choose the best hospital, they want the hospital nearest to them to be up to the job. In exactly the same way, people don't want to be able to choose the best school for their child - unless you're a Tory, it's a private school and you've been doing it for generations anyway - they want the school round the corner from them to give their kids a decent education.

Nothing exposes the cluelessness of the political classes more than the Illusion of Choice.

Jon


Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:04 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
Fundamentally, nobody other than politicians (because labour think this is a good idea too for pity's sake) thinks having a list of all the hospitals in the UK and being able to choose one 500 miles away to have an operation in, even if it's the best hospital in the UK for that procedure, is a valid choice. It's a theoretical choice but a completely impractical one.

Jon


I had to go to hospital recently but it was just a day case thing (maybe 4 hours). Even so I had to do this NHS Choices thingy with the Doctor. The conversation went something like this:

<doctor spins monitor around> "from all these places available which would you like"
<me> "which is the closest?"
<doctor points to screen> "this one"
<me, with puzzled look on face> "ok then, that one"
<doctor> "you also have to pick three more"
<me> "why?"

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Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:23 pm
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veato wrote:
jonbwfc wrote:
Fundamentally, nobody other than politicians (because labour think this is a good idea too for pity's sake) thinks having a list of all the hospitals in the UK and being able to choose one 500 miles away to have an operation in, even if it's the best hospital in the UK for that procedure, is a valid choice. It's a theoretical choice but a completely impractical one.

Jon


I had to go to hospital recently but it was just a day case thing (maybe 4 hours). Even so I had to do this NHS Choices thingy with the Doctor. The conversation went something like this:

<doctor spins monitor around> "from all these places available which would you like"
<me> "which is the closest?"
<doctor points to screen> "this one"
<me, with puzzled look on face> "ok then, that one"
<doctor> "you also have to pick three more"
<me> "why?"


I bet there were only 4 dots on the screen anyway. :lol:

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Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:25 pm
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The point of the system is in fact in no way to help the patient anyway. The point of the system is to meet waiting time targets. To wit - you will be presented with options and you will pick four choices. If your first choice can't manage to fit you in for whatever procedure it is within the waiting time, instead of you still sitting on their waiting list and making their figures look bad, you will be shifted on to your second choice to see if they can do it. If that (or 3rd or 4th afterwards) are acceptable, job's a good 'un and nobody misses their target. If the second (and 3rd and 4th) choices are on the other side of the country and you can't make it to them, well they've offered it and you've refused, so they can take you off the waiting list anyway as you've elected not to have the procedure. Thus hardly anyone goes over the waiting list targets as it's pretty unlikely that all of your choices will be a) local enough for you to be able to accept treatment there and b)full.

The end result? Happy NHS trust managers who get their bonuses and only a few patients sat at home in pain who don't count anyway as they're just been massaged out of the figures.

Jon


Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:52 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8520208.stm
The Tories said the study was flawed and said parents wanted more choice.

There's a very important thing called 'The Illusion of choice'. The Tories may think that's what people want, but in reality, it's not. This is often raised in respect to the NHS but it applies to the education sector too. Fundamentally, nobody other than politicians (because labour think this is a good idea too for pity's sake) thinks having a list of all the hospitals in the UK and being able to choose one 500 miles away to have an operation in, even if it's the best hospital in the UK for that procedure, is a valid choice. It's a theoretical choice but a completely impractical one. People want good care but they also want to be accessible to their relatives for example.

People do not want more choice, they want decent services at their local school or hospital. Simples.

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Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:24 pm
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