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Every citizen to have personal webpage
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7118		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Every citizen to have personal webpage
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/n ... bpage.html

Nice idea but when has any government computer project ever run on time and on budget? :D
Author:  okenobi [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Every citizen to have personal webpage
[LIFTED] brilliant idea. Not only do you already have all my personal data when I don't want you to, know you want to put it on the web for anybody to steal it. Go government.
Author:  AlunD [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Every citizen to have personal webpage
Amnesia10 wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/7484600/Every-citizen-to-have-personal-webpage.html

Nice idea but when has any government computer project ever run on time and on budget? :D

I take exception to that mine are always on time and budget. :roll:
Author:  paulzolo [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Every citizen to have personal webpage
Oh, crap. I don’t like this. Not one bit.
Author:  okenobi [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Every citizen to have personal webpage
paulzolo wrote:
Oh, crap. I don’t like this. Not one bit.


Ideas then?
Author:  jonbwfc [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Every citizen to have personal webpage
okenobi wrote:
paulzolo wrote:
Oh, crap. I don’t like this. Not one bit.

Ideas then?

I wasn't aware it was required to present at alternative to gross stupidity. Just, you know, not doing it is generally considered acceptable.

Jon
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Every citizen to have personal webpage
AlunD wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/7484600/Every-citizen-to-have-personal-webpage.html

Nice idea but when has any government computer project ever run on time and on budget? :D

I take exception to that mine are always on time and budget. :roll:

Okay then you are the exception that proves the rule. :D
Author:  pcernie [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Every citizen to have personal webpage
My guess is this sort of thing will only ever come in at a small level at best, and I'd expect even that to take at least a decade. We're talking about the sort of politicians/ministers that couldn't give a service as established as the NHS a working database...

All said and as far as we're concerned in the UK, it's a very bad idea IMO, but I'd be interested to know how other countries have approached it :)
Author:  bubbles [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Every citizen to have personal webpage
surely they would make a private network to do this?

they really wouldnt do it over websites, if stuff like this is going to happen i would much prefer to have a separate program or something
(not good at explaining things at the moment)
Author:  belchingmatt [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Every citizen to have personal webpage
I already use a 'gateway' for tax, driving licence and passport.
Author:  l3v1ck [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Every citizen to have personal webpage
okenobi wrote:
[LIFTED] brilliant idea. Not only do you already have all my personal data when I don't want you to, know you want to put it on the web for anybody to steal it. Go government.
+1, especially since when it comes to IT, government couldn't organise a booze up in a brewery.
Author:  okenobi [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Every citizen to have personal webpage
jonbwfc wrote:
okenobi wrote:
paulzolo wrote:
Oh, crap. I don’t like this. Not one bit.

Ideas then?

I wasn't aware it was required to present at alternative to gross stupidity. Just, you know, not doing it is generally considered acceptable.

Jon


Jon, you and I both know if they want to do it, they will. My half-assed question was perhaps an attempt to ask Paul whether he has a plan that could stop the government. Somewhat redundant really.
Author:  paulzolo [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Every citizen to have personal webpage
okenobi wrote:
jonbwfc wrote:
okenobi wrote:
Ideas then?

I wasn't aware it was required to present at alternative to gross stupidity. Just, you know, not doing it is generally considered acceptable.

Jon


Jon, you and I both know if they want to do it, they will. My half-assed question was perhaps an attempt to ask Paul whether he has a plan that could stop the government. Somewhat redundant really.


My concern is that there will be a further distancing of government from the people operating on their behalf. This happened in the 1980s when various departments became run by agencies. The agencies were there to create a distance from the ministers and departments in charge. There was an accompanying reduction in staff, and an increased workload on those left.

We will get the same again. The article states that

Quote:
The move could see the closure of job centres and physical offices dealing with tax, vehicle licensing, passports and housing benefit within 10 years as services were offered through a single digital ''gateway'', Downing Street sources told the newspaper.


and

Tim Berners-Lee wrote:
''There will come a point where you don't need all the physical offices any more.''


Which is bad as there will be times when you need the human contact, not a website which is designed to steer you in predictable path.

I think we are looking at a new kind of economy - one which will have to cope with more people being out of work. We are still working in an economy which is based in the mills of the industrial revolution. As we continue to “modernise” (a media-friendly euphemism for getting rid of people) we will find that there is a lower saturation employment point - which means that the maximum number of jobs out economy can support is lower than it currently is. Unless we can reduce the cost of living significantly, so that people can work fewer hours, or for less, or not at all, we are going to be in a situation where we come unstuck. We need to be ready to deal with a lot more leisure time, and the ability to live in it rather than being stressed about where the next meal is coming from.

Until we are placed to make this kind of shift, I think such moves, while probably very sensible, are very unwise.

Currently, as asked, I have no plan as an alternative to the immediate proposal. I think it’s a bad idea. I don’t think that society as a whole will be able to take too much of this modernisation without making major economic and behavioural changes. Until then, it is the government’s social duty to keep as many people employed as they can.
Author:  belchingmatt [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Every citizen to have personal webpage
Less civil servants = less tax = more unemployment = more tax. I've never liked the idea of paying for worthless roles but there has to be something for these workers to do otherwise.
Author:  paulzolo [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Every citizen to have personal webpage
belchingmatt wrote:
Less civil servants = less tax = more unemployment = more tax. I've never liked the idea of paying for worthless roles but there has to be something for these workers to do otherwise.


Indeed - there is a social dimension to employment - something that we have ceased to recognise. Joseph Rowntree knew about this, as did other visionary Victorians, but on our current economic system is so geared towards “efficiency” that they are making our economy very precarious.

We really do need to look at what a job is. If we need a certain number of people earning a certain amount of money to keep the tax take healthy, and private industry can’t or won’t do this, then the state needs to step in and ensure that there are the jobs there.
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