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Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'
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Author:  paulzolo [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

So, more wobbly climate change data then?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8589512.stm

Author:  l3v1ck [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

Sceptical geologists like me are getting less and less scorn these days thanks to stuff like this.

Author:  cloaked_wolf [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

I've long been sceptical of this "climate change" that's being shoved down our throats.

I've been re-reading Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything. One passage mentions even the most powerful computers cannot predict the path the particles of smoke will take after the initial laminar flow. This is cigarette smoke. If we cannot predict this, we cannot (IMO) predict the future climate.

Author:  Linux_User [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

cloaked_wolf wrote:
I've long been sceptical of this "climate change" that's being shoved down our throats.

I've been re-reading Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything. One passage mentions even the most powerful computers cannot predict the path the particles of smoke will take after the initial laminar flow. This is cigarette smoke. If we cannot predict this, we cannot (IMO) predict the future climate.


What you can do, however, is analyse long-term trends.

Author:  jonbwfc [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

Linux_User wrote:
What you can do, however, is analyse long-term trends.

Still doesn't matter. Basic chaos theory; the fact something has done something (or been heading towards something) in an indeterminate system doesn't mean it won't suddenly change direction. Just look at some of the 3D graphs of basic strange attractors, they show it quite neatly.
The people who make claims as to climate change may be right. They may not be. The fundamental point is they have no method of proving or indeed even measuring the validity of their predictions in any objective way over any period of more than a few days. It's all more or less guesswork. we'll only know if they're right or not when we get there.

However, I'm reminded of the observation someone made about the existence of God. He may or may not exist but you might as well act as if he does, because if he doesn't then you've not done any real harm but if he does exist and you've acted like he doesn't then you're in trouble. Equally, even if the climate change predictions are wrong, reducing our reliance on hydrocarbon fuels is still a good thing in the long run, so we should probably do it anyway.

Author:  okenobi [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

jonbwfc wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
What you can do, however, is analyse long-term trends.

Still doesn't matter. Basic chaos theory; the fact something has done something (or been heading towards something) in an indeterminate system doesn't mean it won't suddenly change direction. Just look at some of the 3D graphs of basic strange attractors, they show it quite neatly.
The people who make claims as to climate change may be right. They may not be. The fundamental point is they have no method of proving or indeed even measuring the validity of their predictions in any objective way over any period of more than a few days. It's all more or less guesswork. we'll only know if they're right or not when we get there.

However, I'm reminded of the observation someone made about the existence of God. He may or may not exist but you might as well act as if he does, because if he doesn't then you've not done any real harm but if he does exist and you've acted like he doesn't then you're in trouble. Equally, even if the climate change predictions are wrong, reducing our reliance on hydrocarbon fuels is still a good thing in the long run, so we should probably do it anyway.


Such great wisdom in this post. Thank you.

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

jonbwfc wrote:
However, I'm reminded of the observation someone made about the existence of God. He may or may not exist but you might as well act as if he does, because if he doesn't then you've not done any real harm but if he does exist and you've acted like he doesn't then you're in trouble. Equally, even if the climate change predictions are wrong, reducing our reliance on hydrocarbon fuels is still a good thing in the long run, so we should probably do it anyway.

Agreed it is better to operate as if it is the case. That way you have not made it any worse. Also a few percentage cuts now in carbon now is the same as a huge cut later on.

Author:  pcernie [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

jonbwfc wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
What you can do, however, is analyse long-term trends.

Still doesn't matter. Basic chaos theory; the fact something has done something (or been heading towards something) in an indeterminate system doesn't mean it won't suddenly change direction. Just look at some of the 3D graphs of basic strange attractors, they show it quite neatly.
The people who make claims as to climate change may be right. They may not be. The fundamental point is they have no method of proving or indeed even measuring the validity of their predictions in any objective way over any period of more than a few days. It's all more or less guesswork. we'll only know if they're right or not when we get there.

However, I'm reminded of the observation someone made about the existence of God. He may or may not exist but you might as well act as if he does, because if he doesn't then you've not done any real harm but if he does exist and you've acted like he doesn't then you're in trouble. Equally, even if the climate change predictions are wrong, reducing our reliance on hydrocarbon fuels is still a good thing in the long run, so we should probably do it anyway.


I agree on people not doing any real harm, but unless God does exist and he's got one hell (no pun intended) of a good excuse for his actions and that of some of his lieutenants, he's a fcuking scrote and I won't bow to him no matter what :evil:

+1 on being more efficient in general ;)

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

pcernie wrote:
I agree on people not doing any real harm, but unless God does exist and he's got one hell (no pun intended) of a good excuse for his actions and that of some of his lieutenants, he's a fcuking scrote and I won't bow to him no matter what :evil:

Have you considered becoming a Jedi? ;)

Author:  JJW009 [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

jonbwfc wrote:
However, I'm reminded of the observation someone made about the existence of God. He may or may not exist but you might as well act as if he does, because if he doesn't then you've not done any real harm but if he does exist and you've acted like he doesn't then you're in trouble. Equally, even if the climate change predictions are wrong, reducing our reliance on hydrocarbon fuels is still a good thing in the long run, so we should probably do it anyway.

This is a good analogy, because bad things are done in the name of both "religions".

You shouldn't need "God" to tell you to be "nice". It's the humanitarian thing to do.

You shouldn't need "Global Warming" to tell you to conserve resources for future generations. It's the humanitarian thing to do.

You shouldn't kill, persecute and demean people in the name of "God" - but it happens. Many people are selfish, perverse and misguided.

You shouldn't lie, steal, cheat and defraud in the name of "Global Warming" - but it happens. Many people are selfish, perverse and misguided.

Author:  pcernie [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

Amnesia10 wrote:
pcernie wrote:
I agree on people not doing any real harm, but unless God does exist and he's got one hell (no pun intended) of a good excuse for his actions and that of some of his lieutenants, he's a fcuking scrote and I won't bow to him no matter what :evil:

Have you considered becoming a Jedi? ;)


I can just see it now - 'That's all well and good, but are you a Protestant or a Catholic Jedi?' :lol:

And I fear I don't know enough about Star Wars. Also, George Lucas seems to have lost any talent he had many years ago. Possibly in a galaxy far far away by the look of it :oops:

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

JJW009 wrote:
This is a good analogy, because bad things are done in the name of both "religions".

You shouldn't need "God" to tell you to be "nice". It's the humanitarian thing to do.

Actually it is more primal than that. They have done tests with primates and find that sharing is actually common amongst monkeys and apes even if they are not related.

JJW009 wrote:
You shouldn't need "Global Warming" to tell you to conserve resources for future generations. It's the humanitarian thing to do.

Also the sensible thing to do. If you have no resources then as an country you are in trouble. So better to conserve as much as possible.

JJW009 wrote:
You shouldn't kill, persecute and demean people in the name of "God" - but it happens. Many people are selfish, perverse and misguided.

Definitely very misguided if you kill in the name of your religion. I think that all of them have peace as a core of the religion. I could be wrong.

JJW009 wrote:
You shouldn't lie, steal, cheat and defraud in the name of "Global Warming" - but it happens. Many people are selfish, perverse and misguided.

These people are called politicians, or scumbags.

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

pcernie wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
pcernie wrote:
I agree on people not doing any real harm, but unless God does exist and he's got one hell (no pun intended) of a good excuse for his actions and that of some of his lieutenants, he's a fcuking scrote and I won't bow to him no matter what :evil:

Have you considered becoming a Jedi? ;)


I can just see it now - 'That's all well and good, but are you a Protestant or a Catholic Jedi?' :lol:

And I fear I don't know enough about Star Wars. Also, George Lucas seems to have lost any talent he had many years ago. Possibly in a galaxy far far away by the look of it :oops:

Well you can be a Protestant or Catholic Jedi, but the core thing is that you watch the religious programs, Star Wars The Clone wars or any of the films as often as possible. :D

Author:  pcernie [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

Amnesia10 wrote:
Well you can be a Protestant or Catholic Jedi, but the core thing is that you watch the religious programs, Star Wars The Clone wars or any of the films as often as possible. :D


The last three are like something you'd torture Gitmo detainees with from what I've seen, so no thanks :oops:

Author:  veato [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gulf Stream 'is not slowing down'

The last 3 films are a bit rubbish, especially the first, but no2 is ok and seeing Anakin 'turn' in no3 had me going all kinds of crazy. That was awesome.


Edit : Gulf Stream ------> Star War Prequel Trilogy. Epic thread hijack! :lol:

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