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‘Pre-owned a bigger problem than piracy’ 
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Legend

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Blitz Games Studios’ co-founder Andrew Oliver says second-hand games can effectively quarter owed royalty pay

As EA is set to implement a divisive $10 pay-wall in a bid to curb pre-owned sales of its games, one experienced UK developer believes the threat of second-hand sales must be addressed.

In fact, Blitz Games Studios co-founder Andrew Oliver believes that piracy is not the biggest problem facing the game industry, but instead one part of a bigger, underlying issue; lost revenues.

“Arguably the bigger problem on consoles now is the trading in of games,” he tells Develop.

“I understand why players do this, games are expensive and after a few weeks of playing you’ve either beaten it, or got bored of it so trading it back in to help pay for the next seems sensible when people are short of cash.”

However, citing figures suggesting that games are traded in as many as four times, he says that – if true – this means that publisher and developer royalties are effectively quartered.
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“So while retail may be announcing a reasonable season, the money going back up the chain is a fraction of what it was only a few years ago. This is a much bigger problem than piracy on the main consoles,” he added.

Oliver adds that the damage done by the pre-owned business will push publishers towards “digital downloads, either the full game, or downloadable content releases.”

Today EA revealed it is introducing a $10 pay-wall scheme that will see its line of sports games come bundled with a free pass card for online services – permitting access to online games, downloadable content and other online bonuses.

The pass card will work much like a Microsoft Points card, with users having to input a code to get online access. Once the code is used, the player’s online account is activated and the pass card becomes useless.

It means that, in theory, all pre-owned EA Sports games found at the retailers won’t be offering free online access. Those who buy EA Sports games pre-owned can still get online access, but will have to pay $10 for one.


http://www.develop-online.net/news/3479 ... han-piracy

'Tough' springs to mind... Has your traditional market changed? Change with it.

Oh, and p1ssing off your customers isn't the way to go about it :roll:

I don't even know who buys second hand games if the prices I've seen in stores are anything to go by :shock:

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Wed May 12, 2010 12:53 pm
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“I understand why players do this, games are expensive and after a few weeks of playing you’ve either beaten it, or got bored of it so trading it back in to help pay for the next seems sensible when people are short of cash.”


mmm youve all ready answered the issue.
The games are either too hard or boring... nice graphics dont make a classic.
The games are too expensive ... drop the price for the standard game, by all means charge stupid amounts for those fancy limited editions.
If your going to charge a cost for online play, remove it from the initial price.
For me it will probably affect me the least as the only game i consistantly play online is CS:Source on my laptop. The xbox games I have I play all offline mostly, but dime to a dollar I would never pay to go online.

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Wed May 12, 2010 1:07 pm
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And? What about second hand book shops and libraries? They've been around a lot longer than second hand game shops, but the publishing industry stopped whining about it decades ago.

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Wed May 12, 2010 1:09 pm
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Legend
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bobbdobbs wrote:
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“I understand why players do this, games are expensive and after a few weeks of playing you’ve either beaten it, or got bored of it so trading it back in to help pay for the next seems sensible when people are short of cash.”


mmm youve all ready answered the issue.
The games are either too hard or boring... nice graphics dont make a classic.
The games are too expensive ... drop the price for the standard game, by all means charge stupid amounts for those fancy limited editions.
If your going to charge a cost for online play, remove it from the initial price.
For me it will probably affect me the least as the only game i consistantly play online is CS:Source on my laptop. The xbox games I have I play all offline mostly, but dime to a dollar I would never pay to go online.

I have bought a few preowned games but I still have them. One advantage of amnesia I can go back to them like a new game.

I would not buy a game that was expensive to buy AND then needed online content as well for a fee. Most people have a budget and if that budget is squeezed then instead of buying a handful of games it will probably drop to one. If a game can only be played online for a fee then it is unfair to charge for it in the first place, unless it has a single player option so you can get a character up levels before going online.

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Wed May 12, 2010 1:41 pm
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I wonder what the general take is on renting then? :?

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Wed May 12, 2010 2:13 pm
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AFAIK books and games have always said "This book/game shall not be lent, hired or resold" and I've always wondered why the publishers have never chased this up. Perhaps the shops pay fees?

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However, citing figures suggesting that games are traded in as many as four times, he says that – if true – this means that publisher and developer royalties are effectively quartered.


I've brought a few games second hand, if I'd had to pay full price I wouldn't have, or maybe would have waited years until it was a real bargain.

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Wed May 12, 2010 2:20 pm
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Yes but secondhand bookshops attract slightly different customers to new bookshops. Those that buy from second hand bookshops are probably getting older out of print books, amongst the newer ones.

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Wed May 12, 2010 3:00 pm
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pcernie wrote:
I wonder what the general take is on renting then? :?

Grand theft game! :D

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Wed May 12, 2010 3:40 pm
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Samsung don't complain when they "lose" a sale by me selling my television to someone else, I don't see why EA are special.

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Wed May 12, 2010 4:54 pm
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I'm being lured into considering buying a PS2 for the Gran Turismo series and maybe some GTA.
That's it. I don't want to spend hundreds on a PS3, and I really enjoyed those titles on the PS2, so why not just buy the PS2 in order to play them? :?

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Wed May 12, 2010 7:58 pm
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Selling second hand games is killing piracy! :x

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Wed May 12, 2010 8:50 pm
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However, citing figures suggesting that games are traded in as many as four times, he says that – if true – this means that publisher and developer royalties are effectively quartered.
Assuming that those four buyers would have payed teh full price for a new copy if they couldn't buy one second hand, which I doubt!

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Thu May 13, 2010 12:56 am
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l3v1ck wrote:
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However, citing figures suggesting that games are traded in as many as four times, he says that – if true – this means that publisher and developer royalties are effectively quartered.
Assuming that those four buyers would have payed teh full price for a new copy if they couldn't buy one second hand, which I doubt!

But at the original price I doubt that they would have bought it anyway. The price drops depending on how new the game is. So an older game may only be sold for a small fraction of the new price. So assuming a first game is sold for half price and then again for a quarter of the price and finally for an eight of the original price they still do not add up to a whole second sale let alone three extra sales.

So what the second hand buyers have done is funnel money back to the original buyer to buy more games. Without that infusion of funds they would buy fewer games over all.

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Thu May 13, 2010 5:01 am
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Its a bit like the piracy argument:

A pirate copy does not neccessarily mean a lost new sale
A 2nd hand sale does not neccessarily mean a lost new sale

I'm not sticking up for piracy mind you, just that if someone downloads Sims 3 for example is that because they didnt want to fork out £30-£40 or would they never have intended on buying it in the first place. Yes that doesnt give them the right to do it but it doesnt mean a sale was lost in that sense.

I guess where devs might lose out is where people buy only 2nd hand games in a cycle of play-trade-play-trade.

Curiously I saw a post by someone (possibly over at Bit Tech) and it got me thinking. He questioned why 2nd hand are cheaper? He reasoned that the game itself, the experience and all that comes with it, does not alter once it has been played and traded (minus damage to disc, manual, box, etc).

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Thu May 13, 2010 8:29 am
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They should put more demos on PSN for a kick-off, and be sure to let people know they are there. Talk to Sony about it... That would let people try the game first without maybe trying a cheaper second hand purchase over a full-price one.

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Thu May 13, 2010 9:20 am
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