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Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8578 |
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Author: | pcernie [ Mon May 31, 2010 11:26 am ] |
Post subject: | Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 195838.stm Fcuksake, @rseholes all round there... |
Author: | adidan [ Mon May 31, 2010 11:31 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship |
No matter what they say it was in International waters and hence it was piracy. It's about time the UN enforced the countless International Laws that Israel have been breaking for decades, they can't just do what they like and paint themselves as the sole victims. |
Author: | rustybucket [ Mon May 31, 2010 12:46 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship | |||||||||
But they can and they will. Zionism and Semitism are now seen as being the same thing. This leaves people such as myself in a weird position: I'm a semite but an anti-Zionist; I am jewish but oppose the nation state of Israel. Secondly, the US Jewish lobby has a stranglehold over the US government because of the massive amount they donate to campaign funds. The UN is then crippled because the US can (and does) veto any security council action against Israel. |
Author: | jonbwfc [ Mon May 31, 2010 1:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship |
The realpolitik is the rest of the world thinks they're as bad as each other and will happily ignore both of them as much as possible. Just look at this one - Israelis storm the boats and activists are killed so the Israeli embassy in Istanbul gets invaded and trashed. Were the embassy staff involved? Hardly. Did they fire the shots on the boats? Categorically not. The result is whatever moral high ground the arab world could have claimed over the incident was almost immediately lost. You can't insist someone else conforms to the rule of law when you're perfectly happy to ignore it yourself. Until both sides renounce violence, neither side is going to get what it wants. |
Author: | JohnSheridan [ Mon May 31, 2010 6:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship |
I don't like Israel - I think they are like a playground bully knowing that no-one will lift a finger to stop them as they have USA to run to for help. Now if those ships had been escorted in International Waters by a Turkish frigate then it would have made it very interesting as would Israel have fired on a Nato country ship? |
Author: | jonbwfc [ Mon May 31, 2010 7:27 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship | |||||||||
It was pretty fair guess that the blockade breakers would get boarded to be honest with you. Once that happened it was always going to be a toss up as to whether it was going to get bloody or not. No government in the EU or nearby is going to actively put themselves between the Palestinians and the Israelis like that. What would they have to gain from doing so? Diplomatic gestures, yes. Trade measures certainly. But actually put their troops somewhere where the Israelis might end up shooting at them and therefore precipitate the biggest international crisis for decades when it would profit them not at all to do so? With a UN mandate and backed by a serious coalition? Possibly. But nobody is going to do that on their own. The world is too cynical a place for that. The Israeli officers in control and the troops who boarded the ships and fired on civilians should certainly be prosecuted but running the blockade was a fairly provocative act and history suggests the Israeli army doesn't need much provoking... |
Author: | belchingmatt [ Mon May 31, 2010 7:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship |
It will be interesting to hear about the cargo manifest. |
Author: | jonbwfc [ Mon May 31, 2010 7:37 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship | |||||||||
Sadly, I have a feeling getting an objectively verified list will be difficult. The Israelis will claim one thing, the activists another. And so it will go on... |
Author: | eddie543 [ Mon May 31, 2010 11:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship |
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=terror ... rt=10&sa=N This link is a search for terrorist state on google and israel comes up a hell of alot in association. |
Author: | pcernie [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:36 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship | |||||||||
There's a lot of truth around all of that, and The Guardian really were pushing their luck with the moral crap today. Mind you, so were half the press who wanted to sell you a story rather than the facts ![]() |
Author: | jonbwfc [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:32 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship | |||||||||
Let's hope the UN security council takes this fine objective piece of evidence into account when it makes it's final decision. Lots of interesting video footage on newsnight tonight. First of all what appears to be an Israeli commando with an SMG, when the Israeli military are claiming all they were carrying were non-lethal 'paintball guns' (probably a bit more powerful than your average one) and sidearms for their own protection in an emergency. Then on the other side one of the 'peace activists' who for some reason had brought along a flak mask (like the gas masks the SAS are always pictures wearing that protects against both tear gas and stun grenades) and what looks like a pretty pre-fabricated and rather nasty melee weapon of some sort. Guess both sides were being somewhat economical with the truth. Also, the number of casualties seems to have halved from what the protesters were originally claiming and it's gone fairly quiet about how many if any Israeli soldiers were wounded/injured. Plus a lot of footage that rather suggests the Israelis didn't have a clue about what they were doing... Looks increasingly like a botched boarding of a ship where there were a group of people who were spoiling for a fight. Not really a surprise that the situation went bad. |
Author: | l3v1ck [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:12 am ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship | |||||||||
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Author: | adidan [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:49 am ] | ||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship | ||||||||||||||||||
It would be funny if Israel tried to use UN resolutions in any argument about anything TBH. |
Author: | jonbwfc [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:07 am ] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Well quite. Israel's position seems to be that there is a statute of international law (and I've checked and it is there) that allows a nation to board and search any ship bringing goods into a port which is under a legal blockade. So the question actually is not if the boarding was legal, but if the blockade they were trying to get through is legal. The law is somewhat ambiguous about whether boarding is legal in international waters or just if the ships enter your own territorial waters, but if it's the latter it's a somewhat useless law as you can always board ships in your own territorial waters anyway, so I assume it's the former. My personal opinion is the blockade isn't legal since it doesn't have a recognised legal mandate but I can't find anything that says that's a requirement. Either way, shooting people under these circumstances certainly isn't legal. Jon |
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