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Civil List raise 'inappropriate' in current climate 
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Legend

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A Labour MP has said it would be "inappropriate" to pay "vast sums of additional money" to the royal household in the current climate.

Ian Davidson's comments come after the Sunday Telegraph said the Queen has asked for an increase in the amount of money she receives from the taxpayer.

The annual Civil List has been set at £7.9m for 20 years.

The paper also says the Queen's expenditure is running at about £7m more than the annual allowance.

The shortfall is currently being covered by an emergency reserve, but this is due to run out in 2012 - the Queen's Diamond Jubilee year.

Mr Davidson, who is also a former member of the public accounts committee, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that any increase should not be made "without full disclosure" of the Queen's expenditure.
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Ian Davidson Labour MP

"These are difficult economic times, the government's said we're all in this together and I think it would be inappropriate in these circumstances for the Queen to be handed vast sums of additional money," he said.

"When I was on the public accounts committee we were always seeking more information to justify the amount of money that the royals got.

"Every time we had an examination - for example, of royal travel, for upkeep of the royal palaces - they made changes which resulted in substantial savings to the public purse.

"So I think the price of any consideration of the royals getting more money should be that they have to be open about where the money goes, about the link between the Queen's private fortune and the public purse, because there's a deliberate blurring of the edges between what is private and what is public."
Funding surplus

The Civil List sum, which pays for the running of the Royal household, is negotiated every decade and the last increase was agreed in 1990.

The £7.9m figure that is granted by the government was frozen in 2000, to compensate for 10 years of over-generous payments. Negotiations are currently under way for a new annual sum.

Mr Davidson also said this previous settlement was "so generous" that the Royal Family was unable to spend the annual sum.

As a result, the surplus was placed into an emergency fund, which has recently been drawn on and is now reported to be reaching its limit.

Mr Davidson said that cabinet ministers had taken a 5% pay cut and that "we can't have money just being sloshed out to the Royal Family".

He added: "Let's see whether or not there are economies that can be made, whether or not we could get rid of some of the flunkies that surround the monarchy, whether or not everything is being done in the most cost effective way."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10196457.stm

It's obvious he's got his own agenda just reading what he says, but he's probably correct on a lot of points IMO...

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Mon May 31, 2010 11:21 am
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Yes but it has been frozen for twenty years. Though I think while a rise is not completely appropriate I think that there are reasons for it to be increased.

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Mon May 31, 2010 2:42 pm
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£7.9million doesn't sound like that much when you consider the upkeep of their many historical buildings.

I wonder what the true value / cost of the royals is? All those huge building would require maintenance anyway, and they would lose much of their tourist appeal if it wasn't for the royal pomp and ceremony. I don't think the National Trust exactly makes huge profits from such things?

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Mon May 31, 2010 2:51 pm
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JJW009 wrote:
£7.9million doesn't sound like that much when you consider the upkeep of their many historical buildings.

I wonder what the true value / cost of the royals is? All those huge building would require maintenance anyway, and they would lose much of their tourist appeal if it wasn't for the royal pomp and ceremony. I don't think the National Trust exactly makes huge profits from such things?

The benefits are very high. I think that the queen would like to give up Buck house for Windsor Castle. Though the tourist trade would suffer immeasurably if it were just another big house in London.

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Mon May 31, 2010 3:14 pm
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Over two million visitors per year to the Tower of London at up to 17 notes per adult.

I would like to see a full break down of expenditure and income for the royal household.

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Mon May 31, 2010 3:47 pm
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For many years there was no direct income from the royal family. Don't forget that many tourists come to see the changing of the colour horse guards parade and many other free events. During which they stay in hotels, eat and drink here, providing lots of jobs for Australian and Polish bar staff. Though the solution is to abandon the civil list and return all the proceeds of the Duchy of Lancaster to the Royal family. As that is considerably more than the civil list the Queen will not object.

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Mon May 31, 2010 4:18 pm
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Amnesia10 wrote:
Though the solution is to abandon the civil list and return all the proceeds of the Duchy of Lancaster to the Royal family. As that is considerably more than the civil list the Queen will not object.


I would prefer all the lands and monies to be returned to the people. Hereditary titles in this day and age are a bit of a joke, the French had the right idea.

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Mon May 31, 2010 4:39 pm
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Increase the damn thing, this is the Royal Family and national treasures we're talking about. At the rate the Queen's reserves are disappearing she'll be down Cash Converters with the Imperial State Crown soon. Is that what we want?

I wonder how much No. 10 and the PM cost to maintain?

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Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:04 pm
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No one seems to have noticed that she's not had an increase in 20 years according to the article. Just inflation alone over that time is going to make a staggering difference to expenditure.

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Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:08 pm
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Let's not get unrealistic here. The queen isn't in any way short of a bob. The civil list, be it £7m or more, represents a relatively small amount next to what her own personal wealth must earn her each year. This is a woman whose personal fortune was estimated to be around £350m three years ago. If she can't earn £35m a year off that, she should be sacking whoever handles her finances (Coutts, I believe it is).


Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:18 pm
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jonlumb wrote:
No one seems to have noticed that she's not had an increase in 20 years according to the article. Just inflation alone over that time is going to make a staggering difference to expenditure.

I think that it mentioned that there was another budget that could be used as well but that is running out.

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Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:36 pm
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JJW009 wrote:
All those huge building would require maintenance anyway, and they would lose much of their tourist appeal if it wasn't for the royal pomp and ceremony.

I'm afraid that's pretty much crap it turns out.

If I had time I'd try and hunt down the survey of tourists, 90 odd percent would still visit the buildings without the Royal Family. Then you consider that places like Buckingham Palace are closed to the public most of the year and when it is open you can only see a small percentage of the rooms imagine the money that would be made having it open all year round and access all areas?

Also look at places like the Tower of London, there are no royals there, it gets no government funds and yet makes enough money to turn a profit, pay for it's upkeep and still make it attractive for tourists. The same can't be said for Buck Palace. The Tower also makes it into the top 10 London tourist attractions, no "Royal" buildings do clicky.

A Monarchy is a defunkt and undemocratic establishment. How on earth in a democracy can you put one family gene pool to one side and say they should be treated as a special case?

I can't see any reasonable argument for this to be the situation.

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Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:01 pm
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Yes but would you prefer President Blair, Brown or Cameron? ;)

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Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:24 pm
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Amnesia10 wrote:
Yes but would you prefer President Blair, Brown or Cameron? ;)


At least you can get rid of a president.

How about a Solar Lottery.

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Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:54 pm
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belchingmatt wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
Yes but would you prefer President Blair, Brown or Cameron? ;)


At least you can get rid of a president.

How about a Solar Lottery.

True but most are still there for a number of years. Look at France it had one suspected of crimes which the police could do nothing about until after he stepped down. Then you get the odd president deciding that it is a job for life. At least the Queen has very limited powers, a president will get a lot more.

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Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:59 pm
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