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Householders to be given new rights to defend themselves 
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Householders who confront burglars are to be given greater rights to defend their families and homes. The justice secretary, Kenneth Clarke, is looking at increasing legal protection for people who use force to fight off intruders.

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The government is eager to "ensure that people have the protection they need when they defend themselves against intruders", a ministry of justice source told the Observer.

Clarke will also examine the idea of increased legal protection for have-a-go heroes and passersby willing to "apprehend criminals". The move follows high-profile cases in which householders were given jail sentences after attacking burglars.

Last year Munir Hussain was jailed for using a cricket bat to beat a man who had broken into his home and threatened his family with a knife. Hussain was jailed for two and a half years for causing grievous bodily harm with intent, but was released after a public outcry.

The plan has brought warnings from senior police officers, however, who believe a change in the law could promote vigilantism and could also be exploited to provide excuses for those involved in assault cases.

"We could start seeing people being dragged from the streets into houses or stories made up about them trying to break in," said Simon Reed, vice-chairman of the Police Federation of England and Wales. "We need to be very careful how the law is brought up on this because we certainly would not like people to be seen saying, 'We can do this and get away with it'."

The issue of what constitutes reasonable force when defending against intruders has been a thorny issue for the government since Tony Martin, a Norfolk farmer, was jailed for killing a teenage intruder. Martin shot 16-year-old burglar Fred Burras in the back at his remote Norfolk farm in 1999. He was initially given a life sentence for murder but, on appeal, this was changed to a conviction for manslaughter for which he served three years in prison. Martin's case provoked a fierce debate over the right of homeowners to defend themselves and their property, and several Tory MPs tabled attempts to change the law.

The ministry of justice is to carry out a review of the law in such cases and will look at increased legal protection for members of the public willing to "apprehend criminals". A spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) said it was waiting for further details of the government's so-called Good Samaritan law. The central issue on any proposed change to the law is likely to focus on the use of proportionate force, as against allowing homeowners to use any means necessary to defend their homes.

Reed said the intention to change the law might be populist, but was unnecessary. "The law has been adequate for 40-odd years about reasonable force. Maybe we should just review prosecution policy before we start changing the law. Maybe what's changed is that the Crown Prosecution Service are far keener to prosecute people in circumstances where a few years ago we would have accepted that they were defending themselves," he said.

Police advice on whether the public should step in to help a victim has never been clear. The Metropolitan Police commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, has said: "People have got to make a reasonable judgment but to actively discourage them from being responsible citizens is wrong."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jun/ ... s-burglars

A few points:

1. The Guardian isn't giving you enough background on the Munir Hussain case there - him and other family members probably came close to killing the guy after chasing him down the street, IIRC.

2. Reed's right, but as the article suggests, police advice has never been clear on defending yourself or others. Probably because it's never been spelled out specifically by law, far as I can see.

3. Why is Ken Clarke dressed like Austin Powers going to a funeral in that pic? :lol: :oops:

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Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:53 am
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Hopefully it will avoid crazy situations in the future.

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pcernie wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jun/ ... s-burglars

A few points:

1. The Guardian isn't giving you enough background on the Munir Hussain case there - him and other family members probably came close to killing the guy after chasing him down the street, IIRC.

2. Reed's right, but as the article suggests, police advice has never been clear on defending yourself or others. Probably because it's never been spelled out specifically by law, far as I can see.

3. Why is Ken Clarke dressed like Austin Powers going to a funeral in that pic? :lol: :oops:


1. shame he survived :twisted:

2. what is reasonable is defined by someone who wasn't there and is looking dispassionately at what could of been done with perfect 20/20 hindsight.

3. he's also a QC, so I would assume he was doing some legal work, or on his way to shagtastic party mannnn! :lol:

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Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:36 pm
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+1 Good. Some bugger comes into your house and threatens your family you should be allowed to beat them without going to jail.

-1 It might encourage burglars to arm themselves more often, and that could lead to bigger problems for the home owners.

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Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:45 pm
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The safest action is still to kill the intruder and dissolve them in an acid bath. The chances are that no one will miss them, and you wont have to rely on an inconsistent legal system to approve your actions.

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JJW009 wrote:
The safest action is still to kill the intruder and dissolve them in an acid bath. The chances are that no one will miss them, and you wont have to rely on an inconsistent legal system to approve your actions.


And make sure you avoid the little slip-up that John Haigh made and get rid of any gall-stones, as they don't tend to dissolve at all.

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Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:52 pm
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Lol, I agree you should have a right to defend yourself but in all honesty people tend to think they are tougher than they are and would be advised not to attack an intruder with their hands flapping like they want to play pat-a-cake.

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Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:10 pm
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adidan wrote:
Lol, I agree you should have a right to defend yourself but in all honesty people tend to think they are tougher than they are and would be advised not to attack an intruder with their hands flapping like they want to play pat-a-cake.

Isn't that most women? :D

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adidan wrote:
Lol, I agree you should have a right to defend yourself but in all honesty people tend to think they are tougher than they are and would be advised not to attack an intruder with their hands flapping like they want to play pat-a-cake.
Which is why I have a razor sharp Norwegian hunting knife in my bedside draw. :twisted:

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l3v1ck wrote:
Which is why I have a razor sharp Norwegian hunting knife in my bedside draw. :twisted:


So that an intruder who's taking care not to wake you can silently slit your throat in your sleep if they find it?

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Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:08 pm
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l3v1ck wrote:
Norwegian hunting knife in my bedside draw. :twisted:

I just have my wit. Oh and I'm a bit of a grumpy bear if woken quickly. :D

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ProfessorF wrote:
l3v1ck wrote:
Which is why I have a razor sharp Norwegian hunting knife in my bedside draw. :twisted:

So that an intruder who's taking care not to wake you can silently slit your throat in your sleep if they find it?

If he doesn't wake up when someone start rifling through his drawers he's already in trouble, lets be honest.

I'd agree with the notion that most people aren't actually very good at defending themselves but equally most burglars aren't actually that good at defending themselves either - there's no reason they should be, if you think about it. The end result is its essentially random chance whether you get hurt or the burglar does.


Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:09 pm
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Baseball bat under the bed FTW!!

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Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:24 pm
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ProfessorF wrote:
l3v1ck wrote:
Which is why I have a razor sharp Norwegian hunting knife in my bedside draw. :twisted:


So that an intruder who's taking care not to wake you can silently slit your throat in your sleep if they find it?

Even a burglar with half a brain cell wouldn't go into a bedroom and risk waking people up when everything of value is downstairs. Plus it's hidden at the back of the draw.

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Sorry - my simple point was that most weapons kept for self defence simply end up being used on the home owner.

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