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Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9281		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10500081.stm

Quote:
The Treasury has told most government departments to prepare "illustrative plans" to cut spending by 40% - as well as the expected 25% - within the month.


Quote:
The full 40% plans are unlikely to be implemented but will inform future decisions on cuts, the BBC understands.

Well Ireland have had three austerity budgets in 18 months so each has been tougher than the previous one. So it may not be a hollow threat. Though it will mean huge upheaval for many people.
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
good …
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
MrStevenRogers wrote:
good …

Thinning out Whitehall is good but a 40% cut will definitely hit public services if they extend it that far down the chain of command. So how are class sizes expected to stay the same with 40% less teachers? They already cheat and use classroom assistants instead of teachers when short staffed.
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
i don't care how hard or far they hit 'public' services
the harder and deeper the better …
Author:  Nick [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
MrStevenRogers wrote:
i don't care how hard or far they hit 'public' services
the harder and deeper the better …


That's got to be sarcastic?
Author:  belchingmatt [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
Amnesia10 wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
good …

Thinning out Whitehall is good but a 40% cut will definitely hit public services if they extend it that far down the chain of command. So how are class sizes expected to stay the same with 40% less teachers? They already cheat and use classroom assistants instead of teachers when short staffed.


Wasn't education one of the protected departments?
Author:  pcernie [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
Of course, the people being told to draw up the cuts are usually the ones the department could often do without...
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
belchingmatt wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
good …

Thinning out Whitehall is good but a 40% cut will definitely hit public services if they extend it that far down the chain of command. So how are class sizes expected to stay the same with 40% less teachers? They already cheat and use classroom assistants instead of teachers when short staffed.


Wasn't education one of the protected departments?

No only NHS and Overseas development.
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
Nick wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
i don't care how hard or far they hit 'public' services
the harder and deeper the better …


That's got to be sarcastic?


not at all if you care to look at the 'public' finances and more importantly the public 'pension' bill liability …
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
MrStevenRogers wrote:
i don't care how hard or far they hit 'public' services
the harder and deeper the better …

Clearly you do not think that you use any public services. Wait till your bins are collected monthly because it saves money or the traffic lights are not fixed so leading to traffic jams every day on your way to work; or your kids getting an appalling education because of cuts.
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
Amnesia10 wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
i don't care how hard or far they hit 'public' services
the harder and deeper the better …

Clearly you do not think that you use any public services. Wait till your bins are collected monthly because it saves money or the traffic lights are not fixed so leading to traffic jams every day on your way to work; or your kids getting an appalling education because of cuts.


what will be, will be. god help us all …
Author:  paulzolo [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
Fewer people doing more work for less pay. This sounds all lovely, until the corner cutting causes real problems, and the big wadge of cash needed to straighten out the mess is required. A lot of this could well be a false economy.

Note that cuts will. It just affect public workers, but the private sector which will find contracts cut short, not renewed. Again, a poor prospect those who will inevitably be made redundant.

In the meantime, a large number of people out of work, with fewer jobs available, you have to wonder how many people are going to suffer long term because of this.

I always harp on about the social dimension, because ther is one. Hard nosed capitalists will say that the market will decide, people will find work, and various other punitive phrases which sound more like psersonal revenge than anything based in reality. The painful truth that needs to be accepted is that when people wre working, they feel secure, they buy stuff, they will be more likely to buy luxury items, put money in pension plans etc., and when this happens, money starts flowing more, and the economy starts to pick up.

Putting a big black cloud of doom over people's jobs will cause a cut back on such things, and dumping people on the scrap heap of redundancy will do absolutely nothing to save the country long term. It may look good for a year or so, but will the recovery happen in such short order? I seriously doubt this, and economists far more learned and I have warned of a double recession when stringent cuts are made at such speed.

I suspect we are going to see civil unrest when all this kicks in.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
It won't be a easy process. A double dip recession is now in my opinion a dead cert, though it does depend on what the government and Bank of England do in response to the coming collapse. Cameron expecting private sector jobs to be created because they are no longer being priced out of the market is a fallacy. The expectation that exports will come to our rescue is a dream because absolutely everyone else is following the same plan. Who on earth will be doing the importing? Europe are all trying to export as well. In the past it has only worked in nations that had an export industry to start with. We need to have some form of import substitution for that to improve.

Then the cuts in benefits. While some work shy may be on invalidity benefits many were put there by zealous officials trying to manipulate the unemployment figures. Plus we have had a increase in the disabled from road accidents wars industrial injuries etc, and with medical advances these people live longer. So unless the government have a policy of eugenics in the pipeline these figures will very slowly climb over time. They are treated as second class citizens already, so do you propose a new third class for them. Add in that housing benefit will remove another leg of support for the housing market will drive up rents at the lower end.

Also the pain will not be spread evenly. A few at the very top will continue to do well comparatively but the vast majority will see their living standards fall. The only way out the government can see is to reduce everyones wages to make the country more competitive. Just look at Ireland to see the outcome of that. Still in recession and the economy in free fall with the only way out for many people is to emigrate. That has helped and now the GDP has stabilised but the deficit is still there and still very large and the debt burden is larger.
Author:  phantombudgie [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
Amnesia10 wrote:
the pain will not be spread evenly. A few at the very top will continue to do well comparatively but the vast majority will see their living standards fall. The only way out the government can see is to reduce everyones wages to make the country more competitive. Just look at Ireland to see the outcome of that .... now the GDP has stabilised but the deficit is still there and still very large and the debt burden is larger.


The pain is never spread evenly. Either the very rich remain unaffected or they get their heads chopped off French-style (and that's quite rare).

We're in debt. Cuts are going to happen. Whatever is done, large numbers of people will object, but there's no other way out of it. People have been led to believe that their living standards will improve (or at least never drop) ad infinitum whatever the future holds, but this is simply ridiculous.

I don't know the answer, but the Labour policy of massive public sector expansion (extra useless managers for the most part) and spiraling payments to everyone who feels like they need some more money was clearly not a long-term solution. I suspect the Conservative-driven attempts will also be wide of the mark, but not so much as the previous government. Ho Hum.

We're doomed! [/Pvt Frazer]
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Departments told to draw up plans for 40% spending cuts
I accept that the pain is never spread evenly. It could have been spread a little more evenly. Shame about the ban on the death penalty. ;)

Yes debt is a problem but not just government debt. The UK Public is the most indebted in the world. Job cuts and wage cuts will make the debt burden very hard on them. It will mean many going bankrupt, homes being foreclosed on. Unless the rich suffer more then the public's willingness to accept the pain will disappear. It was the rich that benefited from the boom years, they should also pay for the crisis. That could be concentrated on them by higher capital gains. Income tax increases could also help along with a increase in the personal allowance to offset the income tax increase for the majority. It would also be fairer.

I was not supportive of Labours public sector expansion, and yes you are right useless managers in the main. Benefits only ever increased in line with inflation anyway. I also was not happy with the house price bubble, because it created a housing benefit surge. If the government had actually built a lot more affordable homes then housing benefits would not have spiralled. Though with housing benefits being capped and cut for millions they will not be helping the buy to let landlords. They will suddenly find themselves in a huge hole, many going bankrupt.
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