x404.co.uk
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/

Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9526		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010 ... pectations

Quote:
Students leaving university this summer should cast off "old-fashioned" ideas about what constitutes a graduate job and instead consider starting a business, a government minister has said.

David Willetts, the universities minister, told the Guardian that thousands of young people leaving higher education this summer to compete for jobs should rethink what they consider to be a graduate career. He said: "I think one of the interesting pieces of evidence is that, although graduates don't always start in a so-called graduate job, they then have a good chance of moving on to one.

"The other point I'd make is that we have some odd definitions of what constitutes a graduate job. The most vivid example of that is that setting up your own business does not constitute a graduate job.

Unless it is a high tech one the chances are that a degree will be a problem. If you are a accountancy or law graduate you still cannot set up your own business until you have been practising for two years.
Author:  HeatherKay [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
Title edited to make more sense. Though "start a bus" fitted my sense of the absurd rather better! :lol:
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
HeatherKay wrote:
Title edited to make more sense. Though "start a bus" fitted my sense of the absurd rather better! :lol:

Maybe the box for titles could be a little bigger? ;)
Author:  pcernie [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
Or, 'For the love of God people, we've made unrealistic growth predictions and all sorts here, get to it!' ;)
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
It just makes degrees even less worth while. The problem is that more businesses are set up by non graduates than by graduates. All the businessmen I know are not graduates, or if they are they are not born here.
Author:  finlay666 [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
Amnesia10 wrote:
It just makes degrees even less worth while. The problem is that more businesses are set up by non graduates than by graduates. All the businessmen I know are not graduates, or if they are they are not born here.


Depends on the industry tbh as to whether it's a startup in some niche skilled area such as software dev or not, saying that many did start with bedroom development and has moved on since then
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
finlay666 wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
It just makes degrees even less worth while. The problem is that more businesses are set up by non graduates than by graduates. All the businessmen I know are not graduates, or if they are they are not born here.


Depends on the industry tbh as to whether it's a startup in some niche skilled area such as software dev or not, saying that many did start with bedroom development and has moved on since then

yes very sector dependant. Biochemistry is essential to have a degree. Many iPhone apps have been written by non graduates.
Author:  finlay666 [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
Amnesia10 wrote:
yes very sector dependant. Biochemistry is essential to have a degree. Many iPhone apps have been written by non graduates.


But given the cost of development/time involved it's not a 'business' business as many start out as a bedroom programmer. Also how many of those non-graduate produced iPhone apps cost money, and for those paid ones, how many have sold?

Software development is a pricey business, for a single programmer full time £300 a week is bottom line pretty much + the cost of tools (£600 for the mac + £100 for the access to the store) so say an app that takes a month to make (my HUKD app took about 3 months in spare time so it's about right for a basic application) that is around £2000 in development costs, at 99p a pop they have to sell 3000 to break even (considering they get 70% of revenue), and that 3000 needs to come quickly to fund further development, aka paying the bills.

I don't think many of those paid apps would be 'successful' by programmer standards. And for the purpose of 'getting recognition for getting a job', no degree is going to seriously hinder that
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
Twenty years ago A levels were used to differentiate between the majority of candidates. Now they use degrees for all but the lowest level jobs. Though the relevance of a degree to the job is sometimes irrelevant. Now top employers are using degrees from the top universities only as a filter.

Having a degree can also be a problem. When jobs are tight the employer may doubt your willingness to stay for a lower job because you are over qualified. Once things improve they know that you will look to move on.

As your rebuttal of the iPhone app route, lets assume that you already have an mac to write on, (saved £600) plus you are on benefits so have the time to develop it properly. Okay not perfect but you will need time to develop it properly and worrying will detract from your programming efforts. Then you could use iAds to make money. One developer has already made $1400 in a day from iAds. Now that may tail off as users get bored of clicking on iAd links. This can all be done while looking for a job. As for success it does depend on many things. While few can go on to make a lot of money it can be used as a example of self starting. It can also be used as an extra entry on your CV. Many potential will see the fact that you wrote while looking for work as a plus. Employers may have an idea for an app and need a programmer. Having something that they can see may help. It will also give you a secondary income once you have that job. It all depends on your initial degree. This is all pretty pointless to a doctor or architect but relevant for a computer graduate.
Author:  finlay666 [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
Amnesia10 wrote:
As your rebuttal of the iPhone app route, lets assume that you already have an mac to write on, (saved £600) plus you are on benefits so have the time to develop it properly. Okay not perfect but you will need time to develop it properly and worrying will detract from your programming efforts. Then you could use iAds to make money. One developer has already made $1400 in a day from iAds. Now that may tail off as users get bored of clicking on iAd links. This can all be done while looking for a job. As for success it does depend on many things.


One developer made $1400, which ad supported app was that, and was it made by a graduate?, I highly doubt it was. I'd like to see evidence of that, and whether the $1400 was before Apple took their gouge out of the developers payment or not.

Amnesia10 wrote:
While few can go on to make a lot of money it can be used as a example of self starting. It can also be used as an extra entry on your CV. Many potential will see the fact that you wrote while looking for work as a plus. Employers may have an idea for an app and need a programmer. Having something that they can see may help. It will also give you a secondary income once you have that job. It all depends on your initial degree. This is all pretty pointless to a doctor or architect but relevant for a computer graduate.


This is not what the discussion is about. A good portfolio is a valuable weapon, I know it had some part to play in my recent job and in a fellow student getting her placement as the game she made "made them laugh". A portfolio allows you to demonstrate sound technical knowledge in a creative manner and is a tool to differentiate yourself from other, potentially more book-smart, applicants.

The topic is graduates starting a business, not the importance for technical students of building up a portfolio to help gain a job.
Author:  ProfessorF [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
finlay666 wrote:
One developer made $1400, which ad supported app was that, and was it made by a graduate?, I highly doubt it was. I'd like to see evidence of that, and whether the $1400 was before Apple took their gouge out of the developers payment or not.


Here you go - http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2010/07 ... a-day.html
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
Here is the iAds link http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/w ... first_day/ that was the developers cut after Apple took their cut.

The option of writing apps may or may not work, but for many it is a low cost entrance to business. It can have a very high rate of return, very low start up costs, handy for a business start up. Don't forget that the majority of businesses fail within the first couple of years. So writing apps may fail as well for most but it might be enough for graduates to keep them going till they decide that employment suits them better. Running your own business is not for everyone. Some are better suited for managers. Also remember that being self employed can be a one way route. Many employers avoid former self employed because they find taking orders difficult particularly from others they may regard as inept.
Author:  finlay666 [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
Amnesia10 wrote:
Here is the iAds link http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/w ... first_day/ that was the developers cut after Apple took their cut.


No reference of him being a recent graduate or it being his own startup there, and considering he got a ticket to WWDC I doubt he was a bog standard home developer I suspect he is a properly employed developer who does this in spare time, hence 'projects'
Author:  jonbwfc [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
Amnesia10 wrote:
As your rebuttal of the iPhone app route, lets assume that you already have an mac to write on, (saved £600) plus you are on benefits so have the time to develop it properly. Okay not perfect but you will need time to develop it properly and worrying will detract from your programming efforts. Then you could use iAds to make money.

Your model isn't far off but your initial outlay is short. You don't just need a mac, you also need some sort of iDevice, probably an iPod touch (unless you're specifically developing an app with a 'mobile' focus) and, if you want to maximise your revenue, an iPad. So you've just doubled your outlay to roughly £1200. Then if you want to do any reasonable amount of beta testing you'd need the full developer licence rather than the standard £99 one, so that's another 300 quid on top. £1500 is an impossible amount for someone coming straight out of student life but is possible for someone who has just say been made redundant from a techy job.

IIRC when the app store first launched Apple did set up a venture capital fund to help people develop ideas for apps. I don't know if that's still going (I suspect not, tbh) but I'd say there's a fair chance of getting that kind of sum out of some sort of venture capital fund, provided you have a decent business plan and some evidence that you in fact will make money.
Author:  belchingmatt [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Willetts warns graduates: can't get a job start a business
If you are coming fresh out of Uni would you still qualify for the Apple eduacational discount?


Digressing a little as I don't know much about it, how much is this discount worth? The reason I ask is that I'm wondering if I can blag the discount myself as a dive instructor. Sounds like a far reaching claim I know, but the yanks can actually get college credit for doing a recreational dive course and the use of e-materials is becoming the norm these days. :P
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/