I was playing it on the PS3 for about 2 hours last night, so essentially learning things like fighting, shooting, who the characters are, and the odd minor mission. Problem? It's all so fcuking SLOW

The cutscenes alone seem to be drawn out, and I know they did this for dramatic purposes and to show off their skills (or lack of em) in game immersion, but it's all so dull! Then there's the driving, my God the driving... I had to continually adjust the camera as I was driving since it seems to be permanently slung so low. That's not fun when your car's behaving 'realistically', which is to say takes forever to reach any sort of speed, then requires some rather interesting braking skills just for basic navigation of the streets, never mind other vehicles!

The controls in general seem muddy and unintuitive - at this point I was actually wondering if I had a bad install or something, but my mate's said the same thing, and looking around the net, quite a few amateur reviewers have also.

All in, that's enough to nearly kill a GTA game when you're only a few percent in!

So, am I being too harsh, or did Rockstar seriously drop the ball on this one? I think I can see why it ran like a dog on the PC if my experience is anything to go by

I have played GTA 1 and that was immensely fun, despite being a top-down game.

Haven't played GTA 2 or 3 but played VC, which was also very fun. Vibrant colours, funky music, it was awesome. SA was a bit more 'realistic' and I hated having to do the training and the girlfriend thing. It was a little more serious but it was still fun.

For me, GTA 4 was a complete let down too. I think they tried to make it too realistic and in doing so, took all the fun out of the game. Even with cheats enabled, it was so much effort to get anything done. As you said, the vehicle handling may have been realistic but it took all fun out of the game and made everything frustrating. I ended up resorting to cheats early on and the game still sucked. I think I got as far as, after the first big bank robbery mission, you have to get a cop car and follow some guy to his house and kill everyone. Despite lots of armour and health, I kept losing (either dying or cops).

Games should be fun, not frustrating.

When graphics were crap, enduring gameplay was essential to sell the game. If the game wasn't fun, it wouldn't sell. These days, everyone's into uber-realism that it takes the fun out of everything. This is why I'm worried GT5 will suck and whether I should just go and get the xbox deal with Forza 3 now instead.

I just can't believe how far the series has fallen with this one, and all seemingly because they felt they had to do something impressive with the hardware; I even think that's been a bit of a failure as some of the frame rates and pop ups are atrocious

As you say, too much emphasis on realism, not the gameplay - and even the radio stations are sh1t as a result of that

I love GTA IV, it's brilliant. Nothing better than your engine breaking after being shot at, or flying through the windscreen after crashing! I think the cops give up a little too easily, but that's better than them NEVER giving up like in GTA III. Overall I love it, but Vice City remains my favourite GTA to date - if only for the soundtrack.

+1.

Either that or San Andreas, which had me addicted to it for like 3 months.

SA's my fave (though VC was quality too), but that's the problem with GTA4 for me - the previous games were so easy to play even if all you wanted to do was mess about, there's nowhere near as much opportunity for that in GTA4 as far as I can see. And if there is, I don't think I'll be arsed with the general sluggishness to find out

I wasn't expecting much from GTA IV, so much so that I may not have even got it aside from the fact that my bro got it for me last Christmas.

I have to say, I fracking loved it once I gave it a chance.

I'm going to give it another go, but I can't see me persevering with it - there's little to keep me interested as it stands.

I loved the game, for all the reasons you gusy disliked

I never went round in other GTA's running over pedestrians, doing random stuff. The most random I got to was taking a bike out for a ride round a completely unlocked Vice City.

I like storyline content, and this game has plenty of it. I like that you can make decisions on who to side with at several points in the story. Niko Bellic is a fascinating character, and for once in the franchise his backstory goes some way to explaining why he is the way he is.

The nudge towards realism in the vehicle handling etc is far preferable; I don't think this is a sandbox game, it's more a case of "do what you want, but be aware of the limitations and repurcussions". I haven't played in a few months (killzone is a tough drug to give up!) but I probably will again after Xmas...

I loved GTA4 and I'm still playing it now - side missions etc. I will admit I was a bit unimpressed to start with, it took a while to get into, but then the plot gets a bit meatier, you get used to the controls (which are very similar to the previous titles) and the way the cars handle and it becomes rather enjoyable.

I think one of the difficulties in getting used to playing GTA4 is the fact that I'm used to keyboard and mouse combos for this kind of game. Was a PC gamer until a few years ago and then got a PS3 so having to get used to a gamepad to move around, which made things a little difficult.

I may give the game another go after I've finished playing Uncharted 2.

Ernie! Keep going, it's a slow starter but it gets better!

I switched to classic controls mode and it's amazing how easier it makes things - I could have sworn the cars move faster now, I even jumped in this green POS and it seemed to be attempting Burnout-style warping effects with the camera when I floored it, and I didn't change any of the other settings

Niko still moves like he's got piles though , and the flashier cars spin out at every given opportunity, what with the 'realism'



Yes, it's definitely a lot better since I changed the control system (even the response times!), though you have to go back to using the circle button to shoot

I'm doing missions for the two Russians now...

Each have their own characteristics, that's part of what I loved.

They drive like demons if you learn the quirks of them, some love to kick their tail out and make for great drifting.

I know what you mean, but I just don't have the patience for that when someone I'm chasing has fcuking got away again cos I've crashed, or the cops have arrested me just as I've finished a mission and am trying to get away