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London unrest 

What are feelings (at least roughly approximated by my poll)?
Send in the army / these rioters are the scum of the earth lock them all up etc. 46%  46%  [ 21 ]
Talk to the community and try to look at the root of the issues 17%  17%  [ 8 ]
I don't know what the answer is, but I'm disgusted by the behaviour of young people in London 24%  24%  [ 11 ]
Battersea Pie Station (Covent Garden and not Bluewater - of course) 13%  13%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 46

London unrest 
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If you're poor and you get in a gang, pick a fight, endanger several people's lives, set a few things on fire, destroy a few businesses, take away a few people's livelihoods or steal a lot of gear that doesn't belong to you, you get arrested and go to prison. Good - this how it should be. Nobody forced you to act like a dick

However, if you're rich and you get in a gang, pick fights with other countries, endanger millions of lives, set entire neighbourhoods on fire with bombs, destroy thousands of homes and businesses, take away millions of livelihoods, collapse entire economies or steal trillions of pounds-worth of oil, resources and pension funds that don't belong to you, you get a big fat bonus, a well-paid directorship or a seat in the House of Lords.

"Hello Mr. Kettle, I'm Mr. Pot, and you're black."

I'm not disgusted by the rioters - I'm saddened and disappointed. I reserve my disgust for those whose wealth and power means that they can do vastly more damage.

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Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:55 am
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rustybucket wrote:
If you're poor and you get in a gang, pick a fight, endanger several people's lives, set a few things on fire, destroy a few businesses, take away a few people's livelihoods or steal a lot of gear that doesn't belong to you, you get arrested and go to prison. Good - this how it should be. Nobody forced you to act like a dick

However, if you're rich and you get in a gang, pick fights with other countries, endanger millions of lives, set entire neighbourhoods on fire with bombs, destroy thousands of homes and businesses, take away millions of livelihoods, collapse entire economies or steal trillions of pounds-worth of oil, resources and pension funds that don't belong to you, you get a big fat bonus, a well-paid directorship or a seat in the House of Lords.

"Hello Mr. Kettle, I'm Mr. Pot, and you're black."

I'm not disgusted by the rioters - I'm saddened and disappointed. I reserve my disgust for those whose wealth and power means that they can do vastly more damage.


Why thank you Jim, for not only understanding my disappointment with the situation, but for putting it so much more eloquently than I did.


Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:06 pm
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Riot Act text on Wiki:

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Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:40 pm
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paulzolo wrote:
Riot Act text on Wiki:

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Can you read that to me please. ;)

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Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:42 pm
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http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/camila-batmanghelidjh-caring-costs-ndash-but-so-do-riots-2333991.html

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The insidious flourishing of anti-establishment attitudes is paradoxically helped by the establishment. It grows when a child is dragged by their mother to social services screaming for help and security guards remove both; or in the shiny academies which, quietly, rid themselves of the most disturbed kids. Walk into the mental hospitals and there is nothing for the patients to do except peel the wallpaper. Go to the youth centre and you will find the staff have locked themselves up in the office because disturbed young men are dominating the space with their violent dogs. Walk on the estate stairwells with your baby in a buggy manoeuvring past the condoms, the needles, into the lift where the best outcome is that you will survive the urine stench and the worst is that you will be raped. The border police arrive at the neighbour's door to grab an "over-stayer" and his kids are screaming. British children with no legal papers have mothers surviving through prostitution and still there's not enough food on the table.

It's not one occasional attack on dignity, it's a repeated humiliation, being continuously dispossessed in a society rich with possession. Young, intelligent citizens of the ghetto seek an explanation for why they are at the receiving end of bleak Britain, condemned to a darkness where their humanity is not even valued enough to be helped. Savagery is a possibility within us all. Some of us have been lucky enough not to have to call upon it for survival; others, exhausted from failure, can justify resorting to it.

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Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:02 pm
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If only they had some sort of establishment they could attend that would give them the skills they require for making something of their lives.

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Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:58 pm
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tombolt wrote:
If only they had some sort of establishment they could attend that would give them the skills they require for making something of their lives.

Indeed

Instead, they get to fight their way through schools that resemble battle zones in order to gain qualifications that are worthless.

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Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:20 pm
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rustybucket wrote:
Instead, they get to fight their way through schools that resemble battle zones in order to gain qualifications that are worthless.


Which qualifications are those?

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Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:25 pm
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tombolt wrote:
If only they had some sort of establishment they could attend that would give them the skills they require for making something of their lives.

Lets call it a school.

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Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:25 pm
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ProfessorF wrote:
rustybucket wrote:
Instead, they get to fight their way through schools that resemble battle zones in order to gain qualifications that are worthless.


Which qualifications are those?

Probably reference to GSCE's now that degrees are the minimum requirement for some jobs. Even A levels are not as useful for job leavers.

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Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:27 pm
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Amnesia10 wrote:
Probably reference to GSCE's now that degrees are the minimum requirement for some jobs. Even A levels are not as useful for job leavers.

My time at university was a total waste of money as far as getting a job was concerned. None of the skills I require for work were ever part of any curriculum. Quite frankly, if I'd left school at 12 I'd have been fine - provided I could get the same apprenticeship I eventually did when I was about 24. You know, the way it used to be in the olden days...

Wouldn't have missed it for the world though - great fun.

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Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:33 pm
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I don't think going to a rough school, living in lower class areas, or getting meaningless qualifications is an excuse. Not that anyone has said it is.

I went to what's considered one of the roughest schools in my area, I studied to get GCSE's which have indeed proved useless, I dropped out of my A-Levels half way through and I've turned out alright. (Well I haven't felt the need to rob anyone or set fire to anything yet, but I'm still fairly young, give me time.) I had the support of my parents, which most of these people probably dont have, but there are other ways.

Although I understand some of these people have it very tough, this clearly isn't the answer.

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Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:15 am
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Blue_Nowhere wrote:
I don't think going to a rough school, living in lower class areas, or getting meaningless qualifications is an excuse. Not that anyone has said it is.

I went to what's considered one of the roughest schools in my area, I studied to get GCSE's which have indeed proved useless, I dropped out of my A-Levels half way through and I've turned out alright. (Well I haven't felt the need to rob anyone or set fire to anything yet, but I'm still fairly young, give me time.) I had the support of my parents, which most of these people probably dont have, but there are other ways.

Although I understand some of these people have it very tough, this clearly isn't the answer.

I have a vague memory of some one saying get on your bike and find a job or life

seems some of us did . ;) ;)

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Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:18 am
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JJW009 wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
Probably reference to GSCE's now that degrees are the minimum requirement for some jobs. Even A levels are not as useful for job leavers.

My time at university was a total waste of money as far as getting a job was concerned. None of the skills I require for work were ever part of any curriculum. Quite frankly, if I'd left school at 12 I'd have been fine - provided I could get the same apprenticeship I eventually did when I was about 24. You know, the way it used to be in the olden days...

Wouldn't have missed it for the world though - great fun.

I think that there simply are not enough graduate level jobs for graduates. So many will be doing jobs that their degrees are simply overqualified for. It will either mean that they are left on the dole or that as degrees become the minimum entry level qualification that the majority of kids will have no future.

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Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:59 am
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The competing arguments used to explain the riots

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14483149

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Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:49 pm
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