Fair enough but a couple of points


I've heard several origin stories for fish & chips but never that they were specifically religious/cultural to one group. what's the story behind that? Also, I suspect if you asked the rest of Europe what the UK's national dish is they'd say 'roast beef'.


Our main combat helicopters are either American (apache longbows & chinooks) or are of native design (westland). Stats I found said the UK military owns 1(!) Italian helicopter and no German rotary wing craft at all. As for component manufacture, military gear is the one area where you don't tend to buy 'off the shelf' parts from the far east, because the requirements are very different. Intelligence is obviously something we do cooperate on because that's kind of the nature of the beast.



If there's a treaty which ties the UK legal process to the ECHR, it's entirely possible for us to dissolve that treaty too. Agreed this is not part of negotiations with the EU (and the UK tabloid press conflating the two is wrong) but at the end of the day we consent to comply - if we stopped, I'm not entirely sure what could be done to force us to.
At the end of the day legislation does only work by consent (ref : poll tax). We get the laws and legal system we are willing to tolerate.


If you believe the EU parliaments aren't affected by people with influence and wealth you're being staggeringly naive. It's just not the same people with influence and wealth as in the UK.


I live up north and see neither of these things happening. My nephew got into his parent's third choice school because the first two were full and that third has effectively 'doubled up' i.e. there are now two classes per year. The secondary school near me has expanded it's buildings three times in the last decade. The north is suffering from massive underinvestment and the south is overcrowded but these things are due to a myriad of causes, most of which being or not being in the EU will have little effect on.


Perish the though of hyperbole entering the debate eh?

The first recorded fried fish restaurant was run by Samuel Isaacs from Whitechapel

As for roast beef, ask yourself when you last went out for a roast beef...


Yeah - that'll be an edit fail there

But your correction makes my point for me. The American helicopters were, well, American and either assembled by Americans or Westland. However, Westland has been Italian for 16 years.

As for the electronics, they're made in the Far East because that's pretty much the only place that makes them. I'd love to know where in the UK we make silicon dies.


We could stop being signatories to the ECHR but that would leave us in a group of two - the other country being Belarus, that well-known bastion of democracy


That's not what I said. If you read it again, but more carefully this time, you'll see that I imply that both parliaments are as bad as each other.


In which case you haven't been to the same bits of the North that I have. I bet you live near Horwich...

The place I left in Lancashire has shut 4 primary schools in the last 15 years because those schools weren't in demand, despite the fact that the local population was increasing. They've built none to replace them.

In addition, there are entire industrial towns and districts in Durham, Northumberland and Wales lying empty.


The entireity of the Out and In arguments are hyperbolic - I'm just joining in.

Over here, most people think of either Roast Beef or Fish and Chips as the national dish for England.

In fact, rare or "blue" cooked beef is called English here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-35685656

Reinforcing my question, which has not yet been answered, about what plans exist to bolster this country if we vote to leave. What needs unpicking? What will be put in place to replace them? What problems are foreseen as this process rolls on? What are, basically, the risks and problems and what are the solutions?

The people wanting out are the ones who have to convince me that things will genuinely be better, and addressing this kind of concern is really key to demonstrating that real thought has been put into the implications of us exiting the EU. But they haven’t, and it seems that the counter arguments are running along the lines of referring to the IN campaign as “campaign fear”. So, as those who want the change have no real inkling as to what their change will actually bring about, I remain unconvinced.

The standard response seems to be 'we'll have two years after the vote to figure that out'. Which is all very well but as you suggest, you do think those are things you'd like to be able to base your vote on. It seems an act of faith that all the various requirements for UK independence from the EU will a) be sorted out in time and b) will make us better off. I remain unconvinced.

That surprises me, I would say "overcooked" is the British national dish.

As for the Brexit referendum. The people who most want us out would probably die of boredom waiting for the UK to actually be untangled from Europe.
Here's a piece in Bloomberg about what a colossal and expensive mess it would be...

when we vote out i dont think i will be able to remember teatime
i would sooner stand independently then be on my knees to the EU ...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... hard-to-do

Hmm. Sounds like you’ll need to reinforce those knee pads on the 24th. Best do your sewing before your drinking though.

Better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-35702832

I imagine the “Out” campaign will have something to say about this, and I expect a lot of hyperbole and gnashing.

Ian Duncan Smith has complained about it's bias and inaccuracy (cue howls of laughter from the audience). I believe he used the phrase 'dodgy dossier'.

Well, that will be twice he’s used it then. He was leader of the Tory Party in 2003, when the Dodgy Dossier was published. He must be relishing the nostalgia of the phrase.

Alastair Campbell slams ‘dishonesty’ of papers backing EU exit | Politics | The Guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... referendum

How long have you been ruminating on those revelations lol

Longer than the Out campaign has been ruminating on the risk assessment for leaving.

NHS would be put under threat by Brexit, says Jeremy Hunt | Politics | The Guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... rom-brexit

Apart from the obvious irony, what utter BS.