It's hardy uncivilised or prejudiced to say England have been playing unimaginative rugby - it's a statement of fact. But if it makes you happier, we can call it "pragmatic rugby". (I think English rugby's preferred term is "winning rugby", although we obviously can't use that today.)



Hmmm, you have more faith than me! I know on paper the Wobblies can beat the Boks, I've just been burned too many times in the past to be confident. I will put money on the Welsh though, they really are one of the best teams in this tournament and one of the most likeable. If they win it will be thoroughly deserved.

what are not statements of fact are

A) England shouldn't have been in the world cup.
B) England are only interested in getting the ball to JW to kick for goal.

Be hard to claim the second AND claim England were unimaginative, given JW's kicking percentage this tournament was awful. If they were playing the percentages, that's the last thing they'd do.


I'm quite happy with either to be honest with you. What I objected to is the stuff that went along with it, rather than that. That was opinion which is fair enough, the rest was stating opinion as fact, which isn't. England have been a serious disappointment, no argument (on and off the pitch) but what you said was unjustified.


That's the point of the tournament after all I suppose. However as a neutral I have always liked the Welsh, plus I lived there for several years and went to CAP several times. Good luck to 'em.

Jon

Well the wales v ireland match was stunning - the best match of the RWC IMHO

as for the England v France - less said the better - if only England had played for the full match like they did ofr the last 15 mins they might have won

oh well come on wales

I didn't say that. If you read my post I wrote that their style of rugby - dull, unimaginative - didn't deserve to be in the cup. I never said England themselves shouldn't have been there, that would be ludicrous.



Ok, fair enough. Yesterday they tried sending it to Flood for the drop goal.



We agree!

I have to say, the Boks look a bit skittish.

Well, that was . . . shocking.

In so many ways.

Just listened to a 'quarter final post mortem' discussion on 5 Live. Quite interesting. Consensus seemed to be that both England and Ireland need full 'generational' change to catch up with Wales, who have already done so about 18 months ago. England's failure was due to them having become very predictable (which is essentially the same as Jas's description of them being 'unimaginative', in other words) and that none of the commentators (none of whom were English, although the host was) have any confidence Martin Johnson is capable of doing the job. The fact he's still picking players who played with him 8 years ago is pretty damning. And the post match interview from yesterday didn't give anyone much hope either. The panel seemed to believe England do have good young players who should be playing but that Johnson was too likely to pick 'his mates' (as the welsh panelist described them).

Likewise Ireland have been essentially 'star struck' by a generation of very, very good players who they can't bear to let go of, even though they're nowhere near what they once were. The panel didn't believe the players they have coming through are of the same standard as those players were, but they're better than the 'great' players are now, if you follow what I mean. They expected ireland to improve but probably not enough to seriously challenge for the grand slam.

The South African panelist was of a mind that the 'Boks problem was more managerial - he claimed they simply are picking the wrong players for whatever reason; he seemed to be claiming it was mainly due to club politics but I have to admit I'm not well enough up on SA domestic rugby to be able to really follow the ins and outs.

The other teams didn't get as much discussion as they didn't have representatives on the panel. As usual, nobody was sure whether France are good or not and the opinion on the Aussies was that they are strong but not quite strong enough - they predicted a close SF but Aussies to go out. However the whole panel was very impressed with Wales and their young players. The discussion ended with a round of predictions for the final games. Every single panelist predicted a New Zealand vs Wales final, with the panel 50/50 split as to who might win. I have to say if Wales beat NZ in the World Cup Final, on their ground, that'll be one hell of thing. I'll be able to hear the partying in Lancashire should that happen.

As an aside (and I know this is a Union thread but to me rugby is rugby) if you get a chance to watch the highlights from the Superleague grand final last night, do. Fantastic game.

Jon

The description I've read of SA today in the wash-up of the quarter is that they're one-dimensional. I don't know if I'd go that far, but I suppose if you accept that it is the case, it hasn't really mattered for SA because they can get away with it by being such a powerful side. I'm the first to say Australia did not deserve that win today, but then when the Boks had all that possession and field position and still couldn't cross the line, maybe there is something to the one-dimensional thing. Really, they should have been up by 20-30 points against the Wobblies.



Same here - and it's a tasty prospect. Wales are the in-form playing-rugby-cos-they-just-love-it side, while NZ have been clinical in their demolition of the opposition.



I grew up with league and still avidly follow our domestic comp, so I'll check it out. (My team missed out on the grand final this year, so I'm relying on the World Cup for some vicarious success.)

My Heart would love to see Wales v NZ final my head says it wouldn't happen.

No it won't. It'll be Wales v Australia.

Not a prayer no way will NZ loose to Australia.
The sad thing is I think we would beat the Aussies but I don't think we would beat NZ.

No! If the ABs beat us, the Welsh have to - have to - beat the ABs!



I actually think they could pull it off. NZ have been absolutely clinical so far, but I think if Wales can back themselves and rattle the ABs, maybe by getting an early lead, they could bring on the choke. It's a long shot, I'll admit, but if they can keep their heads, Wales could well get through since they have everything to win and NZ have everything to lose. Either way, it will be a final with the two best teams in the tournament - so no bad thing for rugby fans.

An English man, Irish man and Scottish man walk into a pub...To watch Wales play in the Semi-finals Rugby World Cup.

Wales v Australia final with a Wales win....

If you know a pub that's open at 7AM, can you tell me where it is? Sounds like a nice place for breakfast .