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The Random Sh*t Thread Pt 2
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ProfessorF
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:56 pm Posts: 12030
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So, you're essentially saying that you should require a computing science degree to become an admin assistant? A good grounding in the arcane aspects of Office is a big help, yes, but that's not the same as being a CLI maven. What you describe shouldn't be a failure of the operator, but a failure of the software that doesn't allow the operator that degree of ability. I don't think learning a list of CLI commands would have made much difference - most people require a visual representation of what they're doing, oddly enough, so they can understand what it is they've done. Most CLI commands exist solely as some characters on a display, some bits on a hard drive and inside the users head. And that's the problem. Without an understanding of the system, you can't use a CLI reliably. So that's why we have pretty GUIs and software, and that's as it should be. We made the machine, it should do as we please, with a minimum of fuss and hassle, and without interrupting the work flow, and most importantly of all - in a manner easily understandable by your average user.
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Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:48 am |
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forquare1
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:36 pm Posts: 5157 Location: /dev/tty0
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 |  |  |  | ProfessorF wrote: So, you're essentially saying that you should require a computing science degree to become an admin assistant? A good grounding in the arcane aspects of Office is a big help, yes, but that's not the same as being a CLI maven. What you describe shouldn't be a failure of the operator, but a failure of the software that doesn't allow the operator that degree of ability. I don't think learning a list of CLI commands would have made much difference - most people require a visual representation of what they're doing, oddly enough, so they can understand what it is they've done. Most CLI commands exist solely as some characters on a display, some bits on a hard drive and inside the users head. And that's the problem. Without an understanding of the system, you can't use a CLI reliably. So that's why we have pretty GUIs and software, and that's as it should be. We made the machine, it should do as we please, with a minimum of fuss and hassle, and without interrupting the work flow, and most importantly of all - in a manner easily understandable by your average user. |  |  |  |  |
No, I'm saying people should be properly trained if they are going to have such an incredible amount of computing power in front of them, the problem is that because "anyone can use a computer", nobody gets training. When they do go on training programs, it seems they come back with stories of "Oh look, I learnt how to print double sided!" or "Oooo! I can put boarders on my Word document!", hardly time saving techniques...And surely that is why they got a computer in the first place, to save time? The GUI will inherently slow things down, unless you know keyboard shortcuts, at which point your back to the CLI mentality.
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Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:55 am |
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rustybucket
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:10 pm Posts: 5836
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Not for your beginner to average user it won't. Take two beginners and sit them in front of a computer each. Make one use the GUI whilst the other has to use keyboard shortcuts. Have them make a Powerpoint presentation See who wins The GUI will only slow you down if you really know what you're doing. If however, just like the vast majority of users, you've had zero training and there is no manual available, you'll never do it unless you have a GUI
_________________Jim
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Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:43 am |
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Coref
Occasionally has a life
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:20 pm Posts: 446 Location: ~/
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_________________ I was nickholway on the old boards.
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Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:48 am |
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phantombudgie
Doesn't have much of a life
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:45 pm Posts: 994
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 |  |  |  | rustybucket wrote: Not for your beginner to average user it won't. Take two beginners and sit them in front of a computer each. Make one use the GUI whilst the other has to use keyboard shortcuts. Have them make a Powerpoint presentation See who wins The GUI will only slow you down if you really know what you're doing. If however, just like the vast majority of users, you've had zero training and there is no manual available, you'll never do it unless you have a GUI |  |  |  |  |
I'm with rusty on this one. I know my way around basic programming in a few languages, have years of experience with advanced software, documents and spreadsheets, yet I would still take quite a while to get the hang of a purely non-GUI interface. And I would probably have to force myself to learn. The top 0.1% of computer whizzes (those who enjoy Linux, for example) know that it is possible, after much experience, to achieve far more with command lines, not to mention far more productivity. However, for the remaining computer users, it is about being able to do something. That means not being scared off within 30 seconds of inserting the Live CD. As for your example of a secretary, anyone with your amount of computer skill will never be employed in that position entering data all day when they have the skill to earn far more doing something else! To increase uptake of Linux among those with little or no computer experience (and no desire to have to learn to much), the command line has to go. They want to watch videos on youtube and check their email, and with Microsoft/OSX it's just point and click. That will win over the black window and blinking cursor any day.
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Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:19 pm |
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pcernie
Legend
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:30 pm Posts: 45931 Location: Belfast
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I'm doing a Tesco order, anybody want anything? 
_________________Plain English advice on everything money, purchase and service related:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/
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Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:26 am |
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CMOT-Weasel
Occasionally has a life
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:43 am Posts: 270 Location: Deepest darkest Wales
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Anything that's going! 
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Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:26 am |
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HeatherKay
Moderator
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:13 pm Posts: 7262 Location: Here, but not all there.
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_________________My Flickr | Snaptophobic BloggageHeather Kay: modelling details that matter. "Let my windows be open to receive new ideas but let me also be strong enough not to be blown away by them." - Mahatma Gandhi.
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Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:43 am |
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AlunD
Site Admin
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:12 am Posts: 7011 Location: Wiltshire
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Well thats the first cut of the lawn of the year done with. 
_________________ <input type="pickmeup" name="coffee" value="espresso" />
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Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:20 pm |
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ProfessorF
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:56 pm Posts: 12030
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Autobot valve dust caps for my car wheels. Yes or No?
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Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:26 pm |
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brataccas
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:14 pm Posts: 5664 Location: Scotland
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they will get stolen 
_________________
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Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:42 pm |
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John_Vella
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:55 am Posts: 7935 Location: Manchester.
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Doesn't that depend on what he means by Autobot valve dust caps? I'm choosing to believe that they are valve dust caps that can turn into robots... imagine trying to steal one of them!
_________________John Vella BSc (Hons), PGCE - Still the official forum prankster and crude remarker  Sorry  I'll behave now. Promise 
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Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:55 pm |
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forquare1
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:36 pm Posts: 5157 Location: /dev/tty0
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I'm glad you think that highly of me, the job market certainly doesn't... Secretaries are smart people, they have to be, but their knowledge hasn't been expanded in the area of computing. If you want your secretaries or other office staff to use computers, train them to use them, otherwise you are potentially wasting money. I'm not saying get rid of GUI's, I am saying that GUI's can be a hinderance, and employers have used them as a way of cutting down on IT training. But what I'm really trying to say is that "everyday" people don't have a clue how to use the tools they are given, these are people who essentially make companies and the country work (without office workers, where would we be?). Would you rather get your pizza delivered from someone who drove the delivery car and took the quickest route to your house, or by someone who took the same route but walked?
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Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:06 pm |
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JJW009
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:58 pm Posts: 8767 Location: behind the sofa
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I think a better analogy would be someone that walked 10 miles around the one-way system following TomTom set to "car mode", when if only they'd been shown it they could have taken a short-cut that was just a few yards. The kind of scripting you're talking about is very common. I would not expect a member of our admin team to be able to write such a script, but I would very much hope they might say to me or my manager "Hey, this task is very repetitive. There has to be a better way. Can't one of you boffins write a script for it?"
_________________jonbwfc's law: "In any forum thread someone will, no matter what the subject, mention Firefly." When you're feeling too silly for x404, youRwired.net
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Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:23 pm |
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ProfessorF
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:56 pm Posts: 12030
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Problem is, with a CLI, it's like asking them to be confident enough to do it blindfold, down a one way side street lined with dustbins and full of potholes. Next a burning warehouse.
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Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:24 pm |
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