You know what? I think it is.

Yes but they are corrupt in different ways from each other in the EU.

I am glad that we are not as bat [LIFTED] crazy as the americans other wise we would have more problems. Generally the americans are so parochial. Not caring about anything outside their borders. Brits do have a better understanding of the world not necessarily because we are better but because we owned a good chunk of it for so long.

Pie Alliance FTW

*EDIT* or on second thoughts, maybe the ruskis, if just to get cheap vodka

EU for me. We (Europeans) have much more freedom than those in the "Land of the Free", and that isn't just since 9/11.

Given Germany's reputation for anally retentive rules, a friend of mine did an exchange year in America, he came out of a medium sized town in Germany and went to a family that lived at the foot of Beverly Hills.

He was allowed to smokie at home, in America, not. His guest family were non-smokers, so he went for a walk in the neighbourhood, within 20 minutes, he had been stopped by the police for walking on the sidewalk! It made the residents nervous and they had called the police, because somebody was walking on the sidewalk! They advised him to walk in the woods behind the houses.

The next evening, he was walking behind the houses in the woods, when a policeman on a horse came upon him, he just said, "oh, you must be the German exchange student," and went on his way.

He got told off for smoking in front of the school - well, in front of the synagoge, which was over the road. He was called to the school director, who told him it was religously offensive for him to smoke in front of the synagoge, could he please smoke around the corner (in front of the Catholic church! ).

At home, he could legally walk into a bar and drink beer (16), in America, it was illegal for him to drink beer in the home of the guest family, for another 5 years!

At home, he could have sex, in America (well that part of California), it was illegal (didn't stop him though).

The only "freedom" teenagers had was to own a gun, which he a) wasn't allowed to do, being an foreigner and b) wasn't interested in owning.

Take into account the draconian changes since 911, America is becoming ever less attractive as a country to live in or be allied with.

As to EU law, some laws cannot be implemented in Germany, as they go against the German Constitution, which has precedent over EU law. Local laws have to be modified, but any EU laws which contradict the German Constitution are thrown out. Interestingly, the Americans have been constantly re-writing or ignoring their Constitution since 911.

I'd be interested to know the breakdown of how much that chap encountered was State law as opposed to Federal law. There are some pretty big differences in laws across the USA due to the nature of the country.

I chose pie. As the worse of two evils though I guess EU.

As for the American cheese argument I quite like Monterey Jack.

California is indeed a very special case when it comes to everything Dave has mentioned and a lot more besides. I've been there twice and I have friends living there. Just as Germany isn't Europe, Cali isn't the US.

Monterey Jack has mexican origins.

I think it would be no surprise that I’m an EU person. I think even from a historical perspective, we have a lot more in common with mainland Europe than other places. Sure, we fought every country at one time or another, but that’s the land grab phase. Since 1945, we’ve not had any military conflict within European borders, and we have on the whole, got on pretty well. We do need to stop being the awkward sods in the EU though - it’s not doing us any favours, and I get the feeling that we are seen in less than favourable light at times.

For whose who mentioned smaller states - these are slowly coming to grief. New Zealand is considering becoming part of Australia. Japan has its own economic problems, and if that doesn’t end up as part of a wider economic bloc in its area, I’d be surprised. This doesn’t necessarily mean the end of the nation state, but I think we’ll see fewer and fewer truly independent ones.

It's no surprise to me that most people here are EU, as it comes up often enough. I would definitely expect our student population to be pro-EU. However, I am surprised to hear you phrase it like that. I would've said you were more of a pragmatist given previous posts on government, swine flu, education etc.



And what do you think about that? I love the concept of not having nations at all, but it reads to me like that's not what you're talking about.

I for one welcome our Pie Overlords.

Or we become the Pie Overlords.

I think of myself as European first rather than British Irish or any of the other nationalities I could claim citizenship for.

I'm voting EU as well. We'll have somewhat more of a voice being one of less than 30 than one of 51 for a start.

However, I was wondering where China was in that list. Lets face it, it's already pretty much a super power in it's own right and if you combine the other far eastern nations around it (which is something they seem to be working on) then it's got an awful lot of power.
Also, what about India? We used to own it and the population boost would be astronomical (and pretty much the only thing that can stand up to China in terms of population).