Most people don't care about brand, they want to spend as little on a computer as possible and expect it to last as long as a washing machine or fridge - which is the main reason that I've spent the last couple of years helping people replace their old Windows 9x and Windows 2000 machines, because they were finally coming to the end of their usefulness.

In fact, one person complained that their old Pentium 233 with Windows 95 was quicker than their new quad core Windows Vista machine, because Windows 95 got to the desktop in under 5 seconds from power on, the Vista machine needed around 30 seconds!

Mind you, these are often the same people who think their machine is still protected from malware, because they had a 3 month trial of Norton 95!

As to Apple? The quality and longevits, based on my iMac isn't really much different from a typical Windows PC. Around 2006/7, the iMacs were incredibly good value for money, as was the MacBook (not Pro). There prices were only about 15-20% more than a similarly specfied Windows machine from a name brand. Since then, the named brand prices have plummeted, but the Apple prices have remained the same, or increased.

That's why I ended up buying a Sony Vaio last time round, I got a better specified machine for over 2000€ less. Which is a shame, I really wanted a MacBook Pro, but with a new house and new family, an extra 2000€ just for OS X and a block of aluminium wasn't worth it.

As to Apple lock-in, it is partly true, but not as bad as some of the Apple haters like to make out - and not much different to other corporations.

As has been said above, Jobs did look at making his own cell network in the USA, but decided against it. There are now rumours that they could buy Sprint or T-Mobile USA, but that doesn't make much sense either.

A system doesn't have to be open source to be open. The OS X and iOS platforms are fairly open, developers can develop for them and get documentation on how to use the facilities, they support many of the most common open APIs. Closed source != closed.

Indeed.

Oh really?

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/iphone-linux
http://www.iphonehacks.com/jailbreak_iphone

You seem to ignore everyone who says anything about jailbreaking and you keep blathering on about how you can only install "custom" or "third-party" apps on an Android phone. Please actually look at what is being said in reply.

Jailbreaking, just like installing a custom Android OS, is seen as voiding the phone's warranty (unless you can put it back before handing the phone over).

Like has been said (and ignored) numerous times though. What would you want to install onto an iPhone that cannot be installed through the AppStore? You still haven't provided an example of WHY you want to do this. You seem to be content in just complaining that you can't.

You are starting to sound like a broken record.

Oh, also on Apple you don't get the network's bloatware in the first place. It comes with the software installed from Apple and nothing else.

You can argue with everyone. Changing someone's opinion is a different matter.

Is "projected reailty" synonymous with "opinion"?

That is one way of looking at it. However, just because you have got the max “bang” for your “buck” does not mean that you (the user) will get what you want out of it. There’s a lot more to a computer than hardware. These days, it’s all about the software. That is what you, the user, use and how you interact with the hardware.

The UI for your software - be it on a Mac, Windows, Linux or RISC OS ( ) is the way in which the user experiences the computer. It may be that the UI for Windows makes sense. However, for others it may be too complex, too loose, or just ugly. Other OSes may well push the right buttons. Personally, I don’t want to tinker with the phone or with my Macs. I shove in extra RAM and hard drives, but I’m not about to mess with the OS to make it look “better”. I just want to get on with what I’m doing.

Much the same arguments can be applied to phones.

That's largely the point I was trying to make. A computer is, at the end of the day, a tool just like a hammer. The best tool is the one that allows you to do the most with it, not the one that costs most or has the most bells and whistles. It doesn't matter if your hammer has a molybdenum steel head and an Appalacian rosewood handle, specially polished and shaped to allow for maximum comfort in use, if the balance is wrong. Equally, anyone will tell you spending a bit more will often get you a better hammer that may well make your job easier.

GHz matter less than you enjoying it using it more. And that's something which is entirely individual and no spec sheet will tell you.

Jon

that's why although I like the iPhone (as a smartphone)I have moved away from it, as the OS gets in the way I want to use it.
The iPhone may be more intuitive (or is it that I'm more used to it?) than the equivalent android phone but I have the freedom to do more (of what I want to do) and the big bonus is that I don't have to use iTunes anymore The worst advert for Apple ever!!!, that resource hogging, crash causing, please make my computer unusable, slow abortion of a program (on Windows at least)

I don't think there's anything wrong with iPhones and iOS, they just aren't for me.
I like the widgets you can get with Android. Plus the phones/contracts usually cost less.

The only slight annoyance with iSO, is that I heard Apple won't let an iPhone sync with a none iOS phone for file transfers. Is that true? That would be bloody annying if it was.

Not sure, but then I don't think anyone has ever wanted me to transfer anything from my phone. Then again I have very little that I would say is on my phone, it's all copied to it from the cloud or my computer...

Just thinking, it's interesting that there are more arguments about Apple vs Google. Yet the arguments aren't just Apple in the mobile market, people still involve the Mac, but very little of Microsoft, or Windows, comes into the arguments these days...

Is that because people know better than to try and use Microsoft and Windows to back up an argument against Apple?

[/flame ]

Tis a good point though.

Arguments are now... Apple, Macs, iPhones, iTV, iTunes vs. Google Android, Custom PC Hardware

Is it because with Win7 on the desktop its a case of "it just works"
unless its iTunes on windows then it just dont bleeding work.

Oli,

The difference is this:

Google allow users to change the ROM, as do HTC etc.

Apple actively undermine efforts to jailbreak handsets. If Apple had their way it just wouldn't be possible.

I have no idea what's available in the App. Store - but what I do know is that Apple can remove any of it on a whim, and that not only can I avoid Google doing the same by using third-party installation sources, but they can also compete on price. It also means I might have access to apps. which don't, for whatever reason, make it into official app. stores.

I don't need Apple to decide what Apps. are suitable for me thanks, I'll do that all on my own.

OK, that's true but if you bought an "Orange" Android phone on a contract and it went in for repairs with a custom OS they wouldn't touch it. It may be easier for you to install a different OS onto an Android phone but it still isn't "allowed" by the network.

Apart from that, what would you actually do once you had installed your custom OS? Get apps without paying for them? Get apps that are not allowed due to private APIs like logging and sending information of calls made/received etc... to some unknown server without your knowledge?

I have known for a few years that I can jailbreak my phone but I haven't done. Why, because there is nothing that I can't do on my phone and with apps from the AppStore that I would want to.

What would you (or the average user) actually WANT to do once you have put your custom OS onto the phone? This is what I don't understand. You have said that you can't when actually you can (yes I agree Apple tries to stop it) but you still can but WHY would you want to do it? This is what I don't get? The only result I can see from installing a custom OS is worse battery life, slower performance, etc...