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iPhone 4 
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ChurchCat wrote:
It you take your philosophy to it's natural conclusion though you would never pay for software, certainly not something as complicated as an operating system because such items are riddles with small faults.

Not at all. I never said I don't accept faults, but not with something hugely expensive and they have to be relative to the cost.

As for an OS the last one I bought was Windows 7 and I got that during the offer period when it was £45. That price makes any quirks acceptable compared to if I had to pay £70 or £80 as you do now.

If you have tonnes of cash and can use that relative philosophy on something I would consider expensive then fair enough.

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Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:46 pm
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I do not think that the problem is so major that it requires a class action suit, If you are not happy get a refund, and take it back. Or as some have done find a workaround.

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Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:16 pm
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Amnesia10 wrote:
I do not think that the problem is so major that it requires a class action suit
Me either. I don't even think if my handset was experiencing the problems everyone is moaning about I'd want to sue the company.

Mark

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Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:19 pm
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timark_uk wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
I do not think that the problem is so major that it requires a class action suit
Me either. I don't even think if my handset was experiencing the problems everyone is moaning about I'd want to sue the company.

Why on earth would anybody try and sue? If they're not happy just get their money back, surely?

A US lawsuit I expect? Mind you if they pay out because you buy a motorhome, put it on cruise control, go to the back to make a drink and then crash because you weren't explicitly told that it wouldn't drive itself then I can understand why people would think that they may win...

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Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:28 pm
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Is anyone here with a 3 and a 4 able to do side by side comparisons with sweaty hands in a poor signal area?

I'd accept far more faults on a 1K second hand Astra than I would on a 200K Merc. If the clock so much as lost a second a week, I'd want it fixing! However, I'd expect both cars to have functioning brakes, transmission and engine.

The iPhone 4 TCO is over 9000 times that of a cheap PAYG, so I'd expect fewer faults, greater style and better performance and certainly nothing that actually interfered with it's primary function.

However, looking at the available research it would appear that the iPhone4 has better reception in sweaty hands than the iPhone3 did. It would be improved if they'd simply insulated the aerial, but evidence suggests that the performance is acceptable in any hands.

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Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:41 pm
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My Dad has a 3GS and my bro has a 3G, IIRC they're all on different networks though.

I'll do a side-by-side tomorrow when I'm there.

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Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:14 pm
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Apple's iPhone 4 denial: insulting or ignorant?

Apple released a surreal missive on Friday morning that said the only thing wrong with the iPhone 4 is the way it calculates signal-strength bars. That letter is either an honest explanation or total [LIFTED] — and it's high time that a competent, unbiased antenna-engineering team found out.

On the face of it, Apple's letter — which The Reg reported on earlier today — appears ludicrous in the extreme. Like an alcoholic in deep denial, Apple says that it's not their fault, it's the bars'.

There has been a firestorm of complaints about the iPhone 4's reception problems — hop on over to Cupertino's own discussion forums, for example, and check out recent pitchforks-and-torches outcries such as the real reason for bad reception PART 2! and Apple says iPhone 4 calculates bars wrong. And while you're there, dip into 3G data speed on iPhone 4 is painfully slow. But hurry — on Friday morning there was an active thread called Apple's Statement and Software Fix, but it has since been blocked.

While many posters note that their iPhone 4's reception is quite acceptable, thankyouverymuch, a good percentage say that reception quality has dropped noticeably below what they experienced with previous-generation iPhones.

Perhaps they didn't read Apple's letter, which points out that the signal-strength bar miscalculation "has been present since the original iPhone."

The Reg hesitates to point out three flaws in Apple's argument, simply because they're so obvious that we fear insulting your intelligence. But bear with us:

* iPhone 4 owners aren't complaining about the number and height of their signal-strength bars, they're complaining about poor reception.
* If the bar-height problem exisited in identical form in previous iPhones, why is Apple only now citing it as the reason behind the current hullabaloo?
* How does Apple explain the myriad reports — here's a particularly straightforward one — of reception problems caused by bridging the iPhone 4's two external antennas by touching the spot where they meet?

In a comprehensive and generally favorable review of the iPhone 4, Anandtech delves deeply into the iPhone 4 reception capabilities, with a particularly interesting investigation of its antennas. In sum, Anandtech's conclusion is that the iPhone 4's overall reception quality is superior to that of the iPhone 3GS, but that it is much more susceptible to signal attenuation when its 3G antenna's tuning is disturbed by being touched.

In other words, according to Anandtech's data, when the iPhone 4 is in an area of high signal strength, and when its antenna is not being detuned by coming in contact with what Anandtech refers to as "ugly bags of mostly water" — meaning humans — it will outperform earlier iPhones.

However, when signal strength is poor and the antennas are compromised, the resulting more-severe attenuation would cause the iPhone 4's reception to dip below that of the iPhone 3GS.

As Anandtech puts it in a discussion of touch-induced radio-frequency attenuation:

There's nothing Apple nor anyone else can do to get around physics, plain and simple. It's something which demonstrably affects every phone's cellular reception.

Add in an external antenna you're essentially forced to touch and bridge to another adjacent antenna while holding, and the signal attenuation is even worse. The fact of the matter is that either the most sensitive region of the antenna should have an insulative coating, or everyone should use a case. For a company that uses style heavily as a selling point, the latter isn't an option. And the former would require an unprecedented admission of fault on Apple's part.

If Anandtech's testing and arguments are correct, then Apple's "it's the bars" argument is, not to put too fine a point on it, insulting.

But there's one other possibility: that Apple actually believes that the iPhone 4's problems aren't problems at all, but merely a matter of bar-based hysteria that has somehow erupted only now, even though they claim that the unintended signal-bar deception has existed in the iPhone since its release in 2007.

Luckily, it should be relatively straightforward, as we stated earlier, for a competent, unbiased antenna-engineering team to discover the truth. After all, as AnandTech pointed out: "There's nothing Apple nor anyone else can do to get around physics."

The iPhone 4 is a physical thing, not an idea, not an opinion. Its UI can be argued over, but its physical properties are just that: physical, not stylistic. They can be tested, and their performance parameters can be plotted.

Anandtech has made an excellent start, but the definitive analysis of the iPhone 4 is yet to be completed. We await the evenhanded analysis of seasoned experts who are well-versed in the black arts of antenna design and testing.

Millions of dollars, a gathering legal storm, and the reputation of Apple, its executives, and its design and engineering teams hang in the balance.

As the tagline for the 1990s television phenomena The X-Files declared: "The truth is out there." If you, dear reader, have the expertise — and we know some of you do — go find it. Please. ®

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/02 ... al_letter/

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Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:03 pm
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Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:13 pm
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"It's not us, it's our phone. "

Great excuse. :lol:

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Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:44 pm
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pcernie wrote:
(quoting The Register)
"Anandtech has made an excellent start, but the definitive analysis of the iPhone 4 is yet to be completed. "

I've read the Anandtech analysis, and it seems pretty definitive to me. This sounds very much like 'Anandtech didn't find enough evidence to back up our argument, so we'll just wait until a study comes along that does'. That's kind of not the way it works.

This is the odd things about this - there's a wealth of evidence of people causing the problem i.e. them holding the phone a certain way and the signal dropping severely. But every time someone does a systematic study of it, they can't seem to reproduce the same effect - every one I've read has shown attenuation, but not enough to actually kill the connection. Is there something about 'lab conditions' that reduce the problem? Is it something that somehow only happens in 'field conditions'? I don't know. I do know that I see no reason for the people who have had the problem to be anything other than honest but I have to admit that in over a week of using the thing I haven't had one dropped call or one failure to be able to access data when I need to.

I can't explain this at all. The inconsistency is the thing that's keeping this going - if it was happening all the time to everyone there would certainly have been a recall already but the apparent random factor gives Apple wriggle room. Or, given the statements they've been putting out, enough rope to hang their PR department by.


Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:16 pm
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Thankfully my iPhone doesn't seem to suffer from this, it did drop a bar or two when holding the entire band but that's to be expected holding it in that way.

I would be annoyed if it had this problem but not enough to sue, unfortunately we are now in a sue culture. I was working in the warehouse a few weeks ago helping out and caught my jeans on a stray screw and tore them slightly, I was p issed that it happened and just mentioned it in parsing and one of the managers said "hmmm, I'm not sure if you can claim for that" I wasn't interested in claiming I was just venting it had happened, it's pathetic. As for the iPhone 4, I'm not sure I'd send it back, maybe in the future if they were replacing them, but I do plan on getting a case for it and everything else on the phone performs beautifully. Including a better signal and faster data speeds than my 3Gs.

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Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:10 pm
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DaftFunk wrote:
Thankfully my iPhone doesn't seem to suffer from this,
Wow. As far as I'm aware, me and you appear to be the only ones.
Apple should do science to us, or something, to work out what magics we have. (8+)

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Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:32 pm
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timark_uk wrote:
DaftFunk wrote:
Thankfully my iPhone doesn't seem to suffer from this,
Wow. As far as I'm aware, me and you appear to be the only ones.
Apple should do science to us, or something, to work out what magics we have. (8+)

Mark


My Mrs isn't suffering, nor the brother-in-law with his. My sister got one today so shall see about hers. I thought perhaps it's better 3G coverage, but I had nothing but dropped 3G signal with the 3Gs at work, it would be there, you'd think great, load something up and it would vanish. Now I get 4-5 bars of 3G and great speeds, it all seems a bit strange. Maybe the antenna engineers Apple they're hiring can figure it out

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Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:58 pm
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I was at a meeting yesterday and we managed to get a iPhone 4 to lose the signal completely using the described methods of holding. We did joke about the Jack Duckworth solution (sellotape) to fix it.

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Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:07 pm
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Amnesia10 wrote:
I was at a meeting yesterday and we managed to get a iPhone 4 to lose the signal completely using the described methods of holding. We did joke about the Jack Duckworth solution (sellotape) to fix it.

Yeah, in a low signal area (3 bars with 3G) I can get it to go to "No Signal" in about 30 seconds.

I did an experiment where I phoned someone in the office and held my phone "the wrong way" and it dropped the call after 30 seconds also.

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Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:12 pm
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