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Computer science programme to replace school ICT
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15579		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  pcernie [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Computer science programme to replace school ICT
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/33 ... chool-ict/

I predict ridiculous contracts, but something needs to change, I remember learning more at home...
Author:  l3v1ck [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer science programme to replace school ICT
They need to teach how to write code etc rather than how to use Word etc. Otherwise this country will suffer in the long run.
Author:  finlay666 [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer science programme to replace school ICT
They need to be both, but core ICT skills should be taught in schools
Author:  EddArmitage [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer science programme to replace school ICT
l3v1ck wrote:
They need to teach how to write code etc

I don't think they need everyone to be able to code, but I do think people need to have a basic understanding of how people write code, what a program is, what a language is, even, how programs are executed, etc etc. In reality on my CS degree we were taught how to code for 3hrs/week taught time for the first semester. Writing code is just a tool that's used for assessment or to produce real products. The real benefit is in the understanding of what's going on. You could teach me to operate a furnace and no doubt I'd eventually be able to manufacture all sorts of stuff, but I wouldn't be able to design them without understanding the process I'm carrying out and other tools and materials that other people use.

This change can only be a good thing.
Author:  forquare1 [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer science programme to replace school ICT
ICT should be taught throughout schools. Spreadsheets should be taught with the maths curriculum, Word with English, etc.

Understanding how and why a computer works helps you use it better and more efficiently. Simple scripting will give people tremendous flexibility with their work, offloading a lot of simple, repetitive work onto the computer.
Author:  AlunD [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer science programme to replace school ICT
forquare1 wrote:
ICT should be taught throughout schools. Spreadsheets should be taught with the maths curriculum, Word with English, etc.

Totally agree.
forquare1 wrote:
Understanding how and why a computer works helps you use it better and more efficiently. Simple scripting will give people tremendous flexibility with their work, offloading a lot of simple, repetitive work onto the computer.

The adage a little knowledge is dangerous is very true, so I'm afraid I'll have to disagree here. Huge amounts of damage can be done and be very difficult and expensive to resolve if somebody inadvertently does some simple scripting.
Author:  EddArmitage [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer science programme to replace school ICT
AlunD wrote:
forquare1 wrote:
Understanding how and why a computer works helps you use it better and more efficiently. Simple scripting will give people tremendous flexibility with their work, offloading a lot of simple, repetitive work onto the computer.

The adage a little knowledge is dangerous is very true, so I'm afraid I'll have to disagree here. Huge amounts of damage can be done and be very difficult and expensive to resolve if somebody inadvertently does some simple scripting.

I think CS is more about the underpinnings of computing, as opposed to what I'd describe as a SysDev course which focuses on coding. To my mind, everyone should be competent at IT, and a substantial number should do some CS to a reasonable level (ie. KS3 or GCSE). I don't think they need to particularly be taught scripting/coding but I think they should be aware of it. Me and a group of friends have been trying to produce a nice concise list of what we feel should be taught on a GCSE-level CS course, but topics would be things like Computer Architecture, Programming Languages (What they are, How they're used, How they can be classified), Basic HCI/MMI, Trivial algorithms.
Author:  cloaked_wolf [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer science programme to replace school ICT
I think some of the traditional areas should still be taught - wordprocessing (including touchtyping), spreadsheets, using databases and linking them eg mailmerging, desktop publishing. I'd add in photomanipulation, introductions into the types of programming etc.

I remember as part of my GCSE doing two projects - one involved multiple complex spreadsheets and linking them. The other involved designing and creating company stationery - business cards, letterheads, posters etc. The spreadsheet thing was entirely useful when I was doing A-level physics. I've never had the need for the latter.
Author:  ProfessorF [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer science programme to replace school ICT
At school, we had two classes that really focused around computer use - Computer Science (which I took) and Business Studies.

CS covered the usual nuts and bolts approach to coding. We used HyperCard to a greater or lesser degree to understand how programmes went together and what was effective for the user.
We also learnt slightly more basic stuff on the BBC in Basic and COMAL.
The Business Studies lot learnt more in depth use of ClarisWorks - mail merges, databases, spreadsheets and so on. Things that we touched on, but not to the same degree.
Author:  John_Vella [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer science programme to replace school ICT
AlunD wrote:
forquare1 wrote:
ICT should be taught throughout schools. Spreadsheets should be taught with the maths curriculum, Word with English, etc.

Totally agree.
forquare1 wrote:
Understanding how and why a computer works helps you use it better and more efficiently. Simple scripting will give people tremendous flexibility with their work, offloading a lot of simple, repetitive work onto the computer.

The adage a little knowledge is dangerous is very true, so I'm afraid I'll have to disagree here. Huge amounts of damage can be done and be very difficult and expensive to resolve if somebody inadvertently does some simple scripting.


Speaking as someone who teaches ICT at college level, here are my thoughts.

Yes, I agree that teaching Word and Excel should be done during Maths and English classes, but teaching everyone how to code? No, and there is one reason behnd this.

Some people simply don't want to learn how to code. It is of no interest to them, and they will never use these skills. Why force this upon them, when they could be doing vocational courses that are of more interest to them and more relevant to their hopes and career aspirations.

Mrs. V. has just read my post, we're sat down watching The Big Bang Theory and she glanced over, and she has suggested that maybe teaching them how to perform simple upgrades to computers, such as memory upgrades, hard drive swap outs, etc, would be more useful than teaching them to code.

EDIT: She also mentioned that basic software trouble shooting skills would be really useful in real life... I agree with her!
Author:  forquare1 [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer science programme to replace school ICT
AlunD wrote:
forquare1 wrote:
Understanding how and why a computer works helps you use it better and more efficiently. Simple scripting will give people tremendous flexibility with their work, offloading a lot of simple, repetitive work onto the computer.

The adage a little knowledge is dangerous is very true, so I'm afraid I'll have to disagree here. Huge amounts of damage can be done and be very difficult and expensive to resolve if somebody inadvertently does some simple scripting.


Then you may as well slap a typewrite on the desk of the majority of office workers.

You don't have to let every script be runnable, but a simple knowledge will allow you to script in other languages. Many places allow the user to run macros, yet hardly anyone knows how to create them. If every user could create their own then they could speed up their own work.

If someone buggers the IT system with some simple scripting I think it's more of a lesson to the IT department, they need to assess how that user was able to bugger the system, because if they can do it through a script it means they can do it themselves manually.

John_Vella wrote:
Some people simply don't want to learn how to code. It is of no interest to them, and they will never use these skills. Why force this upon them, when they could be doing vocational courses that are of more interest to them and more relevant to their hopes and career aspirations.


Some people simply don't want to learn history. It is of no interest to them, they will never go back in history or ever be in a position to draw upon such historical events as the creation of the protestant church. Why force upon them, when they could be palming off boring work to the lumps of metal on their desks giving them time to explore other areas of interest?
Just another take on it...

John_Vella wrote:
Mrs. V. has just read my post, we're sat down watching The Big Bang Theory and she glanced over, and she has suggested that maybe teaching them how to perform simple upgrades to computers, such as memory upgrades, hard drive swap outs, etc, would be more useful than teaching them to code.

EDIT: She also mentioned that basic software trouble shooting skills would be really useful in real life... I agree with her!


A-level ICT for me included a hardware module, which was basically build and then upgrade a computer. It was good for the time and should still be taught.
Author:  pcernie [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer science programme to replace school ICT
I'd love to use macros (though I'd need a refresher, it's been some time), but our IT department can't explain why the printer keeps going offline for example, or why it suddenly changes your default settings to another printer...
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