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A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16334		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  paulzolo [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
Image
Quote:
We chase "fast culture" at our peril - unusual words and difficult art are good for us, says Will Self.

We are living in a risk-averse culture - there's no doubt about that.

But the risk that people seem most reluctant taking is not a physical but a mental one: just as the concrete in children's playgrounds has been covered with rubber, so the hard truth about the effort needed for intellectual attainment is being softened by a sort of semantic padding.

Our arts and humanities education at secondary level seems particularly afflicted by falling standards - so much so that universities are now being called upon to help write new A-level syllabuses in order to cram our little chicks with knowledge that, in recent years, has come to seem unpalatable, if not indigestible - knowledge such as English vocabulary beyond that which is in common usage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17777556
Author:  belchingmatt [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
I read that article yesterday. One point that raised most concern was people asking the journo not to use words they didn't know. In this day and age how hard is it to find the meaning of a word by electronic means? Part of the trouble will be because now information is so quick to hand, that people are losing the patience, and even a few seconds to find a definition is considered a waste of their time.

The journo could make things easier for them. If the work he is doing is electronic then he could link the obscure words to their definition, but why should they? Back in the day, if I didn't know the meaning of a word I would have to carry it around in my head until I could find out, and then try to place it back into the text. Now that was learning.
Author:  Linux_User [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
Let's not pretend that there aren't some journalists who use obscure vocabulary in an effort to appear more intelligent than they actually are.
Author:  cloaked_wolf [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
Two things here: knowledge and prose. Whilst we don't instantly know the meaning of particular words, we can look it up. In the past, it was via paper-based dictionaries. Now even browser add-ons include dictionaries. It "ain't" difficult. Secondly, the prose. Whilst I don't mind "flowery" language, IMO it needs to flow. I didn't get that from his article. That's when it looks more like someone using a thesaurus to improve the perception of their vocabulary.
Author:  TheFrenchun [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
I am for the use of the most appropriate word for a given meaning. If it happens to be complicated, so be it.
Author:  leeds_manc [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
I like to think that I have a good vocabulary, but sometimes I do think that some of the Times columnists take the piss with latin and french terms that you have to look up, so you can feel all smug and intelligent too.
Author:  TheFrenchun [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
leeds_manc wrote:
I like to think that I have a good vocabulary, but sometimes I do think that some of the Times columnists take the piss with latin and french terms that you have to look up, so you can feel all smug and intelligent too.

My pet peeve is people talking about trendy new "brasseries" opening.

Brasserie means brewery. If it doesn't brew, it's just a pub/eaterie.
Author:  lumbthelesser [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
Quote from Norton Juster (of Phantom Tollbooth 'fame')
'I'm always confronted by people objecting to difficult vocabulary, which I tend to use. I like words... to kids, there are no difficult words, there are just words they have never come across before. They are not difficult or not, they are just something they don't know about.'
Author:  big_D [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
Learning a new language also brings that attitude.

My parents pushed me to learn an extended vocabulary, not out of elitism or something, but because if you have a larger vocabulary, you can better express yourself. Something I find frustrating in German, because my vocabulary, whilst covering most of the common words that are used on a daily basis, is still fairly limited (probably under 20,000 words). I find new expressions and new words on a daily basis and I enjoy this voyage of discovery.

We also have an American that comes to the company once a week and teaches "English". She has learnt a lot of new vocabulary since she started teaching here - I am not qualified to teach English and I don't have the time to do it, so they pulled in an external language school to teach the rest of the staff enough English to do international support (our company is expanding and we have more and more customers in other countries, so English is becoming ever more important).

Another pet bugbear of mine is the misuse of words. I am always amazed at the number of people who mix up affect and effect, their and there etc. or misusing apostrophes (I'm not perfect, but there are some horrendous uses today). One American "journalist" uses the 's on the end of a pronoun for "is" E.g. Steven's going to the market. :?
Author:  HeatherKay [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
big_D wrote:
One American "journalist" uses the 's on the end of a pronoun for "is" E.g. Steven's going to the market. :?


I don't see anything wrong with that - in informal prose or speech. It's (it is) just a standard apostrophe covering a contraction.

Don't get me started on definite/definate, loose/lose, your/you're... :lol:
Author:  TheFrenchun [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
HeatherKay wrote:
big_D wrote:
One American "journalist" uses the 's on the end of a pronoun for "is" E.g. Steven's going to the market. :?


I don't see anything wrong with that - in informal prose or speech. It's (it is) just a standard apostrophe covering a contraction.

Don't get me started on definite/definate, loose/lose, your/you're... :lol:

Effect/affect,

but mostly, momentarily :P
Author:  big_D [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
HeatherKay wrote:
big_D wrote:
One American "journalist" uses the 's on the end of a pronoun for "is" E.g. Steven's going to the market. :?


I don't see anything wrong with that - in informal prose or speech. It's (it is) just a standard apostrophe covering a contraction

Except on the end of a pronoun it is normally used to designate possession. I found his writing very hard to follow, because I would have to go back and reread the sentence several times before it made sense.

It is a style/usage I certainly wasn't familiar with.
Author:  forquare1 [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
TheFrenchun wrote:
leeds_manc wrote:
I like to think that I have a good vocabulary, but sometimes I do think that some of the Times columnists take the piss with latin and french terms that you have to look up, so you can feel all smug and intelligent too.

My pet peeve is people talking about trendy new "brasseries" opening.

Brasserie means brewery. If it doesn't brew, it's just a pub/eaterie.


Not according to wiki http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brasserie
Quote:
In France and the Francophone world, a brasserie is a type of French restaurant with a relaxed, upscale setting, which serves single dishes and other meals. The word brasserie is also French for "brewery" and, by extension, "the brewing business". A brasserie can be expected to have professional service, printed menus, and, traditionally, white linen—unlike a bistro which may have none of these.
Author:  belchingmatt [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
Who do you trust, Wikipedia or a bona fide live french woman?
Author:  jonbwfc [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Point of View: In defence of obscure words
Well there is some sense that words have context and the context used in this case is England, not France. Words that have previously been 'borrowed' from another language often end up with slightly different meanings than they had in their original context.
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