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Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18103		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  pcernie [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21033984

Oh, I wonder what shower of cadging idiots we've got lined up for this one... It'll be next to useless without proper support staff too.
Author:  cloaked_wolf [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
I read about this and was going to post it but it boiled my piss so much I had to leave the computer.

1. The last IT project wasted billions (£12bn). This will do the same. It has generated more paperwork and made things more difficult. In hospital, they switched to hospital prescribing. Whilst it should have resulted in fewer errors, it meant things took longer to do and frequently weren't done because of it.
2. Release of info - this is basically so private companies can grab at that valuable data. This is what it is essentially all about.
3. At the moment, different PCTs and trusts had different computer systems (all bid by different companies I believe) which is why it didn't work. If they get one company to do it all, it would mean that company could do whatever it liked and screw everyone over.
4. We already share info. How much do we want/need? The system I used at one surgery meant it displayed all encounters with any health professional which included district nurses. With several patients, it meant pages and pages of useless crap about dressings that helped me in no way. It took me longer to navigate to find what I needed.
5. "More time with patients" - which probably means that the consultation was longer because it took more time to find stuff.
6. Confidentiality. The only way to ensure this is to sign out of sharing your information with the likes of SPINE.

I would prefer the billions to be ploughed back into the NHS to improve services. This means things like more clinics, easier access etc. This means more staff.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
What might make a difference is they standardise the overall connectivity, and security. What is needed is that they design what they want first and make sure it is modular so it can be upgraded and changed if necessary.
Author:  l3v1ck [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
Yeah, because we all live in paperless offices these days.
I don't think it'll ever happen.
Author:  paulzolo [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
I remember being promised a paperless office by the lot presenting the BBC Micro programmes in the1980s.

It won't happen, mostly because paper is more immediate than electronic displays. That paperless utopia on the USS Enterprise looks nice, but all they seem to do is hand out PADDs like bits of paper.
Author:  jonbwfc [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
paulzolo wrote:
I remember being promised a paperless office by the lot presenting the BBC Micro programmes in the1980s.

It won't happen, mostly because paper is more immediate than electronic displays. That paperless utopia on the USS Enterprise looks nice, but all they seem to do is hand out PADDs like bits of paper.

My Masters thesis was on the mechanisms and procedures required to make a business paperless. That would have been in.. 1991 I suspect. Everything I described was current technology at the time. Some of the technology has improved immensely since then (i.e. the internet for example) but we're not much more paperless than we were 20 years ago in the main.
Author:  tombolt [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
I quite often print things out so I can read them properly.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
tombolt wrote:
I quite often print things out so I can read them properly.

In some respects we use more paper now than we ever did. Paperless office is an idea that still has not been fulfilled in business either. There are many reasons why paper still reigns supreme, especially if anything were to go to court. Which in a medical case would be probable.
Author:  pcernie [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
Despite having databases up the wazoo, we currently print more than ever. Though a lot of that is due to idiotic management.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
pcernie wrote:
Despite having databases up the wazoo, we currently print more than ever. Though a lot of that is due to idiotic management.

Much of that is to have paperwork to cover their own backs, no matter whether it is private or public sector.
Author:  pcernie [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
Amnesia10 wrote:
pcernie wrote:
Despite having databases up the wazoo, we currently print more than ever. Though a lot of that is due to idiotic management.

Much of that is to have paperwork to cover their own backs, no matter whether it is private or public sector.


That's precisely it.
Author:  cloaked_wolf [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
I print out stuff at work all the time.

If I do a home visit, I print out a brief summary of the notes to take with me. If I run an audit, I'll print the results so I can look patients details up on the screen whilst looking at the printout list and tick them off. I'll print off emails for various things - useful chart to put on wall, summary of course/lecture details so I have a hard copy to use in the car, invoices to hand in to the practice manager etc.

If I do a presentation in powerpoint, I'll print off the notes pages to remind me of things I need to cover in finer detail. Frustratingly, powerpoint prints one slide per page with the notes underneath.

Referral forms for suspected cancer need to be faxed so I'll print them off and fax them. I give x-ray forms to patients. Other imaging forms need to be faxed. Referral letters are printer and posted. I'll print patient information leaflets for patients to read.

We use tonnes of paper and that's one practice.
Author:  Linux_User [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
If HMRC can build and maintain a national database of all UK taxpayers, I don't see why the NHS keep [LIFTED] theirs up.
Author:  JJW009 [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
Linux_User wrote:
If HMRC can build and maintain a national database of all UK taxpayers, I don't see why the NHS keep [LIFTED] theirs up.

It does seem silly, but the NHS records are far more complicated than the tax ones.

Still, it's just a database. Many companies have huge, very complicated ones. How hard can it really be?
Author:  james016 [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going paperless 'would save NHS billions'
I saw a quote about paperless offices years ago but I don't know who said it.
"The paperless office will be as successful as the paperless toilet"

Nobody mention the 3 seashells. They don't count. ;)
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