x404.co.uk http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/ |
|
'Moore's law is dead' http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8039 |
Page 1 of 1 |
Author: | pcernie [ Mon May 03, 2010 11:50 am ] | ||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | 'Moore's law is dead' | ||||||||||||||||||
I'm curious to know if anyone thinks what he's saying is feasible/likely - I always suspect these sort of things would take at least a decade just to get a foothold ![]() Here's a handy plain English guide from Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_processing Thoughts? |
Author: | Amnesia10 [ Mon May 03, 2010 12:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 'Moore's law is dead' |
Parallel computing is very hard to program in. I had a friend who was a contract programmer in a number of languages and he used to program in Occam and he said that it was the worst language to program in because you have to keep track of too many processes. |
Author: | pcernie [ Mon May 03, 2010 12:12 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: 'Moore's law is dead' | |||||||||
I'd guess the human factor is deadly in any sort of programming ![]() |
Author: | forquare1 [ Mon May 03, 2010 12:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 'Moore's law is dead' |
It's the kind of thing I could see Apple doing one nay. Creating a parallelised version of the OS and forcing all of their developers to port their apps to the new architecture. Apple would probably create some method to run existing applications with reduced performance and capabilities... People I know who have done multi-threaded programming hate it because it is so challenging on the mind. |
Author: | forquare1 [ Mon May 03, 2010 12:25 pm ] | ||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: 'Moore's law is dead' | ||||||||||||||||||
Parallel programming may be well suited for model driven development, where the "programmer" creates models of what they want the program to do and then feed these models into an application which creates code. These applications could create parallel applications without as much need for humans to conceive the parallelism of the application. |
Author: | big_D [ Mon May 03, 2010 12:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 'Moore's law is dead' |
Energy efficiency is the key? Maybe nVidia should try applying that to their own hardware. Their current generation of high end chips use nearly twice as much power for the same performance, compared to the high-end ATi chips - they are also considerably more expensive... Edit: As to parallel programming, that was the aim of the Transputer back in the 80s, but it failed (Occam was created specifically to program the Transputer chips). Another problem is, a lot of tasks can't be re-written to run in parallel. Especially programs that tend to sit around waiting for user input. A text editor can't really do much with another 200 cores, if it is simply waiting for the user to press a key. A lot of programs that can use multiple cores are already using them (look at Cinebench, that is a good example a multi-core capable program. The question is, where the scalability drops off. nVidia could certainly bring some supercomputer like parallel processing power to average users, but the question is, how many average users will really want to run large weather prediction models or genome mapping? It makes sense for folders (CETI etc.) and certain games, although the current ATi and nVidia card plus PhysX do most of what is needed, the games themselves are still pretty linear - although you could probably give some of the AIs their own processors... But for the average user, who does nothing more than email and a bit of web surfing and maybe watch a video, it isn't going to bring them any advantage. When we start building computers into the core of a house and everything is computer controlled, we might make use of some of that power. Likewise, for corporates, it might make some sense, putting in a couple of parallel processing servers and giving the users dumb winterminals. All the processing power is available for all users as and when they need it. Although this is something we do with current server technology and it just needs multiple processors and lots of RAM, it doesn't specifically "need" nVidia's brand of parallel processing, over what Intel currently give us - although it might allow for greater scalability at cheaper prices than the current Intel solutions. |
Author: | Amnesia10 [ Mon May 03, 2010 1:03 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: 'Moore's law is dead' | |||||||||
I would imagine that any such future OS that is fully parallel will be such that the app programmers do not have to learn multi processor languages. I expect that there will be compilers that convert the program into a form that the OS can use. |
Author: | big_D [ Mon May 03, 2010 1:32 pm ] | ||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: 'Moore's law is dead' | ||||||||||||||||||
There are parallel processing extensions for the C language already. There need to be, because Intel and AMD server already go up to several hundred thousand cores on high end servers. But it is a very specialised field. Most programmers can't get their heads around splitting their tasks into hundreds of thousands of bits - and as I said above, very few "general" computing tasks can make much use of more than a couple of cores, because there isn't that much of the process that can be run in parallel. For non-supercomputing tasks, I think it is going to be more for running lots of different tasks at the same time, or supporting hundreds of users at the same time (web servers could benefit, but they usually run out of bandwidth, before they run out of processing power. And for such tasks, Windows and *NIX are already in a position to take care of hundreds or thousands of cores - the Data Center and Supercomputer versions of Windows scale up, Windows Server will run to thousands of "compute nodes" with 8 processors each (currently 92 logical processors per compute node) and that is with Intel Xeon or AMD Opteron chips. nVidia's advantage will be bringing hundreds of logical processors into a single compute node (computer). The question is, how much memory will the individual processes need, will their motherboards be able to accept the hundreds of GB of RAM required to process the data that fast? And they will need something a lot faster than SAS, let alone SATA 6G to retrieve and store data. They will also probably need less power than an Intel equivalent, because they can fit hundreds of cores on a die, so you won't need as many physical boxes, each with their own PSU. The real question is, how many nVidia cores do you need to equal the processing power of a current 8 hexacore Intel based HPC compute node? The nVidia chips are a lot simpler than the Intel ones and they are designed to perform a limited number of (complex) calculations, but they are less general purpose. Edit: Excel 2010 also has the ability to delegate processing of UDFs (user defined functions - functions written by the user or a third party) asynchronously on a HPC compute cluster. http://blogs.msdn.com/excel/archive/201 ... uster.aspx |
Author: | big_D [ Mon May 03, 2010 1:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 'Moore's law is dead' |
Ignore, hit quote instead of edit... ![]() |
Author: | AlunD [ Mon May 03, 2010 1:40 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: 'Moore's law is dead' | |||||||||
You aint wrong ![]() |
Author: | l3v1ck [ Mon May 03, 2010 1:48 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: 'Moore's law is dead' | |||||||||
Yet another misquote of Moore's law.
It has nothing to do with the speed or if they're used in a parallel way or not. |
Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC |
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group https://www.phpbb.com/ |