Hmm, interesting use of words there. So, what about software that is deemed professional level - I know a few photographers, for example, that use Aperture in their professional workflow. Will they not be allowed to use the Aperture that's available in the Mac App Store in their day to day work? Technically it's commercial work, not non-commercial. I can see a huge grey area in that licence agreement.

I believe there is another section of the licence agreement that deals with business purchasing. Essentially it limits business purchases on a per user rather than per seat basis - which is different to the terms some major commercial software is sold under and may cause some issues down the line - but it doesn't disavow people buying stuff from the app store to run their business.

Fundamentally, if you buy App Store apps to run your business, you have to buy one copy per person in your business that may use that software. It goes along with the linking of app store purchases to iTunes accounts. Basically you can't register 'Acme Design Ltd' for an account then buy one copy, install it on all your macs and let all your staff use it. The staff have to have individual accounts, and you have to buy each member of staff a copy of the apps they will want to use.

Jon

Yes, I assumed as a business user, you'd have to buy one copy per Mac - my query was mainly related to the "non-commercial" aspect of the licence, or does this business part of the licence allow you to use the software for commercial use. I'm still on Leopard 10.5 so can't check out the Mac App Store myself, but would be interested in hearing more on business use of the apps you download.

Let's take the example of Aperture, say if you're a professional photographer - working on his/her own. If they wanted to use Aperture, could he/she buy and use the Aperture available in the Mac App Store - or would they still have to buy the retail boxed copy to be legal? Maybe that's why the version in the Mac App Store is so cheaper than the retail version you buy in the shops?

Yes but would that mean that a company is banned from such purchases. Seems bizarre. I do like the multiple usage which is very handy for me. I have 3 macs that I could use them on.

I was looking at script writing software and that is pretty commercial yet contour and storymill are both in there for sale.

And? Given the cost of the apps on the Mac, compared to the prices of average apps on the phones, it is more important to offer trial versions! I'm not going to give out 50 - 1000€ for a piece of software, without being able to trial it...

It's a different market. We don't sell houses the same way we sell cucumbers.


Obvious question : what did you do when you bought Mac/PC software before the Windows phone 7 App store existed? Did you insist on trial versions then? I rather suspect you didn't, as that has never been the standard methodology on PCs.

Mac Apps (and Windows apps, largely, outside games) have never been big on trial versions. If you wanted to spend significant sums of money on software, you did some research - read some reviews, examined the feature list etc. That is still true, even with the Mac App store.

You seem to be suggesting that because the Mac App store suddenly exists, that should fundamentally change the way the mac market works in terms of all apps being available as demos. I can see no logical reason why that should be the case. The Mac App store is simply one more retailer (albeit a digital rather than 'bricks and mortar' one). I don't see why it should spontaneously cause Mac Developers to do business an entirely different way.

Of course, you're free to not buy any Mac App that doesn't have a demo version. Just as you were before.

Jon

I stand to be corrected, but I'm pretty sure you can (could?) download a trial version of Aperture.

You are correct.

I downloaded it and had a go. Had no intention of ever buying it (for the money at the time) but wanted to see what I was missing.

Nothing. (8+D

Mark

Yup, you still can.

However, there is no 'standard' to that. Apple don't offer trial versions of their other 'professional' apps, for example. MS have mandated a rule that all windows phone 7 apps must have a trial version (I believe they do the same on the XBox digital store as well) but there's no inherent reason Apple have to follow that lead in a market where there's no particular precedent for it in the past. The Mac App store is just another shop. That's all. Expecting massive upheaval because of it's existence doesn't really seem to have any basis to me.

I suppose they could have offered the facility for a trial version link in the app description maybe but I don't think there's any real commercial pressure for them to do so. If we assume someone would be put off by the lack of a demo on the app store now, would they not have been put off by the lack of a trial version before the app store existed? And if there was a trial version before on the supplier's web page, chances are there still is. Essentially, the launch of the app store hasn't changed this in any way at all.

Jon

I don't think I agree with this bit. I currently have a number of trial applications installed, some of which are time limited and some feature-limited/ad-supported. If I'm making a decision between two pricier bits of software (Cornerstone vs Versions, for example) then I'll definitely want a trial of both of them. With the Mac App store creating lots of similar apps and putting them all side-by-side, I think even the more trivial/cheap apps could do with offering trials, as look and feel could be the deciding factor between two very similarly spec'd apps.

To be honest, I probably should have made the distinction between what you might call the 'shareware market' and the 'box software market'. The 'shareware market' has obviously always had trial versions, that's entirely what it is about. Although in fact the distinction does seem to have blurred in recent years - there's a lot of very professionally made Mac 'shareware' around these days which is anything is higher quality than the stuff you pay hundreds of pounds for that comes in a big cardboard box.

Most of the stuff on the app store is going to be 'shareware' stuff - single function apps made by single coders or small groups. I think it's unlikely InDesign or Logic Pro are going to turn up on the App Store anytime soon. And, as I believe we discussed a while back, there's nothing to stop those kind of groups offering trial versions via their own web page anyway and taking advantage of the app store's payment & licensing mechanisms.

What I was disagreeing with that bigD's assertion that, because online shop A has a rule that all things sold through it must have 'free samples', ALL online shops should have mandatory 'free samples'. I don't really see how that follows at all.

Jon

Before I bought Office 2010 and Windows 7, I downloaded the 3 month trial versions and tested them. When I was looking at web development software, I downloaded the trial versions of some Adobe products (fully featured, just time limited). MS do the same with their server products, although they are often 6 month trials.

Same for VMWare. Rational (IBM) software - if I'm going to give out over 10K per seat for a piece of software, I want to be sure that it does what I need it to do.

Most anti-virus software companies offer time-limited trial versions.

Good, unlike the App stores, I had to go to each individual software companies website and download their trials. In fact, Apple have said, if you want a trial version, go to the developer's website and download the trial! If I have to go to the developer's site for the trial, why would I come back to the App store to buy the complete package? I've already gone directly to the source...


Maybe it is a difference between the PC software market and the Apple software market - although Adobe's free trials are available for OS X as well... As were trial versions of iWorks, at least when the product was first released! ... Oh, lookie : http://www.apple.com/iwork/download-trial/ a 30 day free trial of iWorks, no demo versions just don't exist on OS X!


No, I'm saying that the app store shouldn't stop this practice of providing demo versions and the way the App store works, it should actually be easier for them to give out demo versions.

It just seems to defeat the whole object of the app store, if I have to go to the developer's website to get the demo, then ignore their e-shop and go back to Apple to buy the full version...


Ah, I see, Adobe, Microsoft and Apple are shareware companies?

I sort of understand what you're saying, Dave, but bear in mind that eventually most smaller developers will only be selling their wares through the App Store. I believe a few have already made that jump.

So, while you may be directed to a dev's site for a demo version download, you will eventually be redirected back to the App Store to purchase. Also, I suspect we'll see the option of demo downloads that can be unlocked by purchase later in updates of the store itself.

I very much doubt we'll see the big boys like Adobe and MS joining in, either. It's not in Adobe's interest to offer a cut-price copy of Photoshop when it's worth hundreds of dollars to them the traditional route. We might see Lightroom appear, as it's pretty damned obvious Aperture is cleaning up at the current price, and I bet Adobe want some of that market back! We'll probably see Photoshop Elements, too. Whether MS will make an effort to offer a cut-down variant of Word or Excel remains to be seen.