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OK, so the 'you can run three 4K monitors if you want to' thing is kind of like car maker's MPG statistics, but I can't really see a circumstance where you'd need to run three 4K monitors day to day, or how you'd be able to have them all on a desk anyway. One 4K TV on the wall as a preview screen, two say 27" 2560*1440 monitors to work on. Can anyone see a use case where that wouldn't be enough? There's no real case for 4K computer monitors to use at desktop working distance anyway because they would be far beyond the 'retina screen' barrier - I can barely see the dots on a 1.4k screen at any useful distance as it is.

The point of 4K is to be 'retina screen equivalent' at big screen TV viewing distances (say ten feet). Who uses a desktop computer screen that's ten feet away from them? What do they use it for?

Bitching that it can't realistically do something that realistically nobody will need it to do anyway seems to me a bit of a pointless exercise.


Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:39 am
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Is USB 3 fast enough to supply a 4K file?

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Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:02 am
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ProfessorF wrote:
Is USB 3 fast enough to supply a 4K file?

In real time? No it isn't. USB 3 is about a third the speed you'd need to stream 4k video in real time. But that's not what USB is for really.
jonbwfc wrote:
OK, so the 'you can run three 4K monitors if you want to' thing is kind of like car maker's MPG statistics, but I can't really see a circumstance where you'd need to run three 4K monitors day to day, or how you'd be able to have them all on a desk anyway. One 4K TV on the wall as a preview screen, two say 27" 2560*1440 monitors to work on. Can anyone see a use case where that wouldn't be enough? There's no real case for 4K computer monitors to use at desktop working distance anyway because they would be far beyond the 'retina screen' barrier - I can barely see the dots on a 1.4k screen at any useful distance as it is.

The point of 4K is to be 'retina screen equivalent' at big screen TV viewing distances (say ten feet). Who uses a desktop computer screen that's ten feet away from them? What do they use it for?

Bitching that it can't realistically do something that realistically nobody will need it to do anyway seems to me a bit of a pointless exercise.


Fair point. The only time being able to drive 3 4k screens I can think of would be at a concert or conference and even then you'd probably be using considerably cheaper projectors anyway.

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Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:18 am
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Just did some Googling - USB 3 apparently tops out at 635MB/s. For an uncompressed 4k movie file, you're looking at ~478MB/s.

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Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:40 am
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davrosG5 wrote:
Fair point. The only time being able to drive 3 4k screens I can think of would be at a concert or conference and even then you'd probably be using considerably cheaper projectors anyway.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I can't come up with a case for three 4K screens where there aren't already just as good and cheaper alternatives. It's just a marketing willy-waving claim that doesn't hold up to analysis, they shouldn't really have bothered to make it.


Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:36 pm
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ProfessorF wrote:
Just did some Googling - USB 3 apparently tops out at 635MB/s. For an uncompressed 4k movie file, you're looking at ~478MB/s.

Interesting. I was going for USB3 tops out at 5gbps and 4k is 15gbps which was the reason for upping TB to deliver 20 gbps.

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Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:55 pm
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If all those Thunderbolt ports are used for the 4k displays where will the data come from? It also needs those thunderbolts to store the data or have I missed something? :?

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Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:01 pm
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Amnesia10 wrote:
If all those Thunderbolt ports are used for the 4k displays where will the data come from? It also needs those thunderbolts to store the data or have I missed something? :?

USB3 might be good enough to feed a compressed 4K stream though (say H.265 MP4).

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Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:18 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
If all those Thunderbolt ports are used for the 4k displays where will the data come from? It also needs those thunderbolts to store the data or have I missed something? :?

USB3 might be good enough to feed a compressed 4K stream though (say H.265 MP4).

Jon

If I were going to have a 4k screen, which will be expensive I doubt it will be an issue. I will probably have a single 4k screen and the the other ports would be available for hard drives. Apple must have worked out how to run 3 4k screens before they announced it.


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Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:33 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
If all those Thunderbolt ports are used for the 4k displays where will the data come from? It also needs those thunderbolts to store the data or have I missed something? :?

USB3 might be good enough to feed a compressed 4K stream though (say H.265 MP4).

Jon


The figure for uncompressed 4k came from here, and are based on 4k cinema (that is, 12bits colour, 24fps, interlaced).
According to the numbers, USB 3 should be capable of piping uncompressed cinema ready 4k to your displays.
You can choose to go with fatter file options however.
You'd also be looking at a file size of about 1.7TB per hour of footage.

EDIT:
I'm talking out of a hole in my hat, I suspect.

[url]http://blogs.intel.com/technology/2013/06/video-creation-bolts-ahead-–-intel’s-thunderbolt™-2-doubles-bandwidth-enabling-4k-video-transfer-display-2/[/url] -
Quote:
“By combining 20Gbs bandwidth with DisplayPort 1.2 support, Thunderbolt 2 creates an entirely new way of thinking about 4K workflows, specifically the ability to support raw 4K video transfer and data delivery concurrently,” says Jason Ziller, Marketing Director for Thunderbolt at Intel. “And our labs aren’t stopping there, as demand for video and rich data transfer just continues to rise exponentially.”

Professionals and enthusiasts alike will be able to create, edit, and view live 4K video streams delivered from a computer to a monitor over a single cable, while backing up the same file on an external drive, or series of drives, simultaneously along the same device daisy-chain. Backing up terabytes of data will be a question of minutes, not hours. And finally, since Thunderbolt 2 is backwards compatible, original investments in cables and connectors continue to pay off while supporting dramatically improved performance. Thunderbolt 2 is currently slated to begin production before the end of this year, and ramp into 2014.


Given the nature of USB 3, I doubt if it'll manage the same.

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Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:38 pm
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I wasn't thinking of that method. You have the file of compressed 4K video on USB 3 media (for cost and bandwidth purposes) and then the Mac Pro uncompresses it and feeds that to the display/displays. There's no real reason to keep the media in uncompressed form if all you're doing is showing it on a screen, rather than editing it for later broadcast.


Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:10 pm
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ProfessorF wrote:
Given the nature of USB 3, I doubt if it'll manage the same.

From what I remember thunderbolt is better suited to high sustained transfer times and USB is limited to high peak transfer rates.


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Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:23 am
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I re-read the article and it looks like it doesn't bond 2 channels together, but the 10gbps in both directions into a uni-directional channel.

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Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:33 am
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