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NHS hospital management by overseas firms 'discussed'
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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the management layers were put in place to suck funds directly from the NHS it was deliberate and planned management will create extra layers to safe guard their own position and disregard the rest ...
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:54 am |
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bobbdobbs
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:10 pm Posts: 5490 Location: just behind you!
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Unfortunately I concur and our political overlords will never fix it (as both sides have proved, time and time again)
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:56 am |
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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there is away but it will mean succeeding where 'guy fawkes' failed  ...
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
Last edited by MrStevenRogers on Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:19 am |
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bobbdobbs
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:10 pm Posts: 5490 Location: just behind you!
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through reasoned "debate" I hope 
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:22 am |
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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reasoned debate with a detonator in hand  ...
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
Last edited by MrStevenRogers on Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:25 am |
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bobbdobbs
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:10 pm Posts: 5490 Location: just behind you!
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ah the notorius C4 argument strategy 
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:47 am |
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ShockWaffle
Doesn't have much of a life
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:50 am Posts: 1911
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Why exactly have we jumped to this conclusion that it will be American companies that take over these hospitals rather than French, German or Swedish ones?
And why are we assuming that in the event it is Americans, that somehow means we are trading in the NHS for an American model of health care? If Greyhound start a bus company in the UK, would they drive on the American side of the road? Perhaps they would not, it would cheaper and more effective to drive as we do. Perhaps they would likewise take over running of an NHS hospital within the framework of the NHS.
There are many countries that have privately managed hospitals within an NHS style public service, and that haven't experienced the catastrophes that our more wild-eyed reactionaries are predicting. I already listed three. Sometimes it is worth remembering that there is a world beyond America, and it isn't all bad. Maybe it's smarter to look at what is actually proposed and then arrive at an informed conclusion, rather than exercising your xenophobic knee-jerking muscles yet again.
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:51 am |
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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it just may focus their attention on anything other then their expenses ...
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:52 am |
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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it will make no difference who or from where it will just be a gravy train very similar to the energy companies overseas ownership ...
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:55 am |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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Here is my MP. He is a Simon Burns, and is one of the health ministers who are architects of this system.  Feel free to write to him at the Houses of Parliament. I contacted him via the 38 Degrees web site which is running a campaign against the NHS reforms. You’ll get a reply like this:  |  |  |  | Quote: Thank you for contacting me about the NHS reforms and the 38 Degrees campaign. I am deeply committed to the NHS, as is the Prime Minister who said, "you could sum up my priorities in just three letters: N-H-S". Our reform plans were examined in detail by the independent NHS Future Forum, which comprised the country’s leading doctors, nurses and NHS experts. They concluded that the twin demands on the NHS – of an ageing population and of rising costs of new treatments and technologies – meant that reform of the NHS was needed. They also recommended significant changes to the Government’s original plans, which we have accepted. These significant changes have addressed many of the concerns originally raised by 38 Degrees and others. I am unsure as to the basis of the latest concerns expressed by 38 Degrees. First, 38 Degrees suggests that the Health and Social Care Bill, “removes the Secretary of State’s duty to provide”. However, 38 Degrees’ own legal advice states that the Secretary of State has never had such a duty to provide. Therefore, the Health and Social Care Bill makes no changes to the Secretary of State’s duty to provide, because it never existed in the first place. Second, 38 Degrees suggests that the Health and Social Care Bill opens up the NHS to competition law. However, once again, 38 Degrees’ own legal advice states that competition law already applies to the NHS. I hope you agree with me that 38 Degrees’ concerns are without foundation, as their own legal advice has confirmed. I am grateful to you for taking the time and trouble to draw this campaign to my attention. Yours sincerely The Rt Hon Simon Burns MP Member of Parliament for Chelmsford simon.burns.mp@parliament.uk |  |  |  |  |
He won’t be changing his mind. He’ll probably end up with a directorship on one of the benefitting companies when this government gets voted out. This is, after all, what this is really about. The Tories advancing their careers in the race to become as rich as possible.
Last edited by paulzolo on Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:11 am |
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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 |  |  |  | paulzolo wrote: Here is my MP. He is a Simon Burns, and is one of the health ministers who are architects of this system.  Feel free to write to him at the Houses of Parliament. I contacted him via the 38 Degrees web site which is running a campaign against the NHS reforms. You’ll get a reply like this:  |  |  |  | Quote: Thank you for contacting me about the NHS reforms and the 38 Degrees campaign. I am deeply committed to the NHS, as is the Prime Minister who said, "you could sum up my priorities in just three letters: N-H-S". Our reform plans were examined in detail by the independent NHS Future Forum, which comprised the country’s leading doctors, nurses and NHS experts. They concluded that the twin demands on the NHS – of an ageing population and of rising costs of new treatments and technologies – meant that reform of the NHS was needed. They also recommended significant changes to the Government’s original plans, which we have accepted. These significant changes have addressed many of the concerns originally raised by 38 Degrees and others. I am unsure as to the basis of the latest concerns expressed by 38 Degrees. First, 38 Degrees suggests that the Health and Social Care Bill, “removes the Secretary of State’s duty to provide”. However, 38 Degrees’ own legal advice states that the Secretary of State has never had such a duty to provide. Therefore, the Health and Social Care Bill makes no changes to the Secretary of State’s duty to provide, because it never existed in the first place. Second, 38 Degrees suggests that the Health and Social Care Bill opens up the NHS to competition law. However, once again, 38 Degrees’ own legal advice states that competition law already applies to the NHS. I hope you agree with me that 38 Degrees’ concerns are without foundation, as their own legal advice has confirmed. I am grateful to you for taking the time and trouble to draw this campaign to my attention. Yours sincerely The Rt Hon Simon Burns MP Member of Parliament for Chelmsford simon.burns.mp@parliament.uk |  |  |  |  |
He won’t be changing his mind. He’ll probably end up with a directorship on one of the benefitting companies when this government gets voted out. This is, after all, what this is really about. The Tories advancing their careers in the race to become as rich as possible. |  |  |  |  |
remember the theme tune 'things can only get better' now play it to 'things can only get worse' welcome to the leading 2nd world nation on the planet ...
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:19 am |
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hifidelity2
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:03 pm Posts: 5041 Location: London
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+1 So taking into account of inflation calculatorwe have in todays money the cost of the NHS 1950 = £14.4 Billion 1965 = £18 Billion 1975 = £39.5 Billion 2011 = £110 Billion And dont forget as we have allowed for inflation if the treatmenst had not changed then te costs should have been broadly static
Last edited by hifidelity2 on Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:26 am |
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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 |  |  |  | hifidelity2 wrote: +1 So taking into account of inflation calculatorwe have in todays money the cost of the NHS 1950 = £14.4 Billion 1965 = £18 Billion 1975 = £39.5 Billion 2011 = £110 Billion And dont forget as we have allowed for inflation if the treatmenst had not changed then te costs should have been broadly static 1965 1975 2011 = £110 Billion |  |  |  |  |
the b(w)ankers seem to be doing all right along with the NHS management and other senior civil servants remember we are 'all' in this together but its only us grunts on the ground that seem to be suffering ...
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:31 am |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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But I did say that we had rationing. I will accept a doctors opinion if the treatment is unnecessary. I also think that IVF is problematic and should be debated. While some will say that kids are a luxury that we cannot afford they are the ones that will be paying our state pensions in future years so we need them. Also people expect that some wonder drug should be offered to them even if it is ineffective for them, though DNA testing could eliminate those cases. There are lots of people who run through expensive drug regimes before heart surgery is used. I know of one person who spent a number of years with an irregular heart beat who because of side effects was on 20 different medications per day before he had a pacemaker installed. While I accept that some people can be solved by drugs alone many deteriorate until the only solution is surgery. Maybe the solution is research to find out whether the DNA of people impacts the success of a drug regime. It could mean those people will benefit from the best procedure as soon as possible. I agree about the excessive levels of management and much of it is useless as well. That is a side effect of league tables, targets and assessments. Then you have the issue of governments raising peoples expectations of the NHS.
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:08 pm |
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bobbdobbs
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:10 pm Posts: 5490 Location: just behind you!
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For me there is no debate, it should NEVER be offered on the NHS. Not being able to have children is not life threatening or debilitating. If it effects you that much counselling should be offered or a simple nudge towards adoption/fostering. Otherwise GTFO! Children are not a luxury but they may mean you cant afford the luxuries you had before they came along. If the clinical decision is that the drug isn't going to work, the only comeback should be has the decision been correctly made. Not the highly emotive bandwagons that get created. People will always have high expectations of the NHS and they should have. But people should have an understanding it cant be everything to everybody.
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Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:31 pm |
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