If I'm in a coma, I'm not aware of my surroundings. Time, therefore, presumably becomes meaningless. I don't recall any long term coma patients waking up and saying 'Thank god I'm awake, I was sooo bored.'



Can I just ask what it is that you have seen? Media coverage?
Your point about the standards of children being raised in poor conditions is valid, however that has nothing to do with the penal system and rather more to do with society's shortcomings.

Please, get in touch with your local prison and take a visit. Speak to some inmates. The ones that are posting 'Prison's dead easy' from a smuggled phone aren't likely to making any admissions that actually, life's pretty [LIFTED] inside.

I don't think that's entirely true, there are many reports and case studies showing that a significant number of coma victims are aware of their surroundings, which is why so many relatives sit by their bedside talking to them, reading them books, newspapers etc. It's also been shown that many coma victims have an awareness of the passage of time.



I don't pay attention to media coverage, I don't have a tv and rarely read newspapers, but I've visited 3 prisons in the UK (Wealstun, Maidstone and Swansea) and one in the US. They seemed from my perspective to be all about the "human rights" of the prisoners, and in the UK, the tour involved details about the qualifications of the chefs, the amount of "free time" the prisoners have and the facilities there are for them to use. There was really very little convincing about the actual "punishment" side and nothing at all about rehabilitation apart from the ability of the prisoners to do work within the prison for money to spend in the tuck shop?! (although my last visit was about 3 years ago)

I certainly agree that none of the places I have visited were my idea of a fun way to spend 'x' number of years serving a sentence, but they also weren't remotely like my imaginings of jail, apart from Maidstone they were more like the maternity wing of a hospital than a prison, basic accommodation but more luxury, and access to more facilities than I would have expected. I'm certainly not career criminal material, but even I didn't think it'd be that bad to be stuck in Wealstun for a few years.



It is about societys shortcomings, but the parralel was more about the fact that I don't believe we should be spending so much time and effort making sure criminals have a comfortable stay during the course of their sentence when there's so much else that needs dealing with.

I guess when it comes right down to it, I would rather make prison really unpleasant, small single cells, terrible food and basic facilities, and then organise rehabilitation for afterwards, while the person is still just glad to be out of the prison, reeling and wrong-footed after their sentence, perhaps in detention centres so they are still apart from society. Punishment needs to be a deterrent, otherwise it's not a punishment.

Problem with making prisons really awful places is that you make the prisoners much more problematic. Many years in solitary confinement means that they come out with serious mental problems and an even bigger threat to society on release. If conditions are bad then you increase the chances of prison riots, and deaths of guards who in the US are mainly paid minimum wage. If the food is bad they will not eat and you have a problem with prisoners ending up in the infirmary, which is more expensive than keeping them in general population. As for lack of rehabilitation that is down to lack of funding or wasted funds.

Perhaps we could work to reduce crime by address the issues that cause it in the first place? Just a thought...

What are you going to do? Outlaw greed and malice?

I thought that was Tony Blairs plan? One of the big causes is inequality of income. Labour have not done well on that score, and the Tories would be even worse. Though if the inequality was less then the problems with poverty will be less as well.

When I said we, I didn't mean politicians.

Linux, I meant we could perhaps work on creating stronger communities and help to eliminate people's need to commit crimes. But I guess it was a stupid, idealistic suggestion...

Part of the problem is the ridiculous number of things that are now "crimes".

I think that it does help if people actually had time to spend talking to their neighbours. If everyone has a job, then they barely see their neighbours. I know my neighbours. Though I live in a nice neighbourhood where you can leave the front door unlocked.

Yes, there are too many crimes, but knowing one's neighbours is a much more practical and better start IMHO. We can't possibly hope to change government or legislation in the weak state we're currently in. We can, however, try to change our communities from the ground up until we're strong enough to affect change on a larger scale.

Yes but if we all have to work then that is not likely to happen. When families has only one breadwinner then communities flourished. I blame both the main parties for that.

+1

We've moved from a state where the economy served the people to the people serving the economy.

I don't know how we moved to a point where both adults need to work full time to survive, but it's only been a bad thing and we should aim to get back to one adult working/both adults working part-time.

Sure, the economy would take a hit, but people only live so long, the economy will go on forever.

When exactly was that? Was it before or after the Great Depression? If it was after, then this awesome period of humanity's existence lasted maybe two decades,during which we had Total War, followed by reconstruction, and a massive influx of young males into the workforce, the like of which will never be seen again. If it was before, then it must have been when we had poor houses, and people dying of consumption.

Don't let your grandad's rose tinted recollection of his childhood era make you believe silly things. All that 'golden age' stuff is untrue.

In relation to the actual topic; won't this be more of a story if the guy is still writing that stuff in 2030? It's pathetic to be angry at the prison system for not breaking his bravado at the start of his sentence, that's what a Life Sentence in prison is for.

You seem to be at odds with the philosophical basis of imprisonment in the UK and all other civilised nations.

Making people miserable is not the purpose of prison. The point is that imprisonment itself is the suspension of one's fundamental human right to self determination. In normal life you have the right to decide where you go, what you eat, when to take a dump, and so on. When you are placed under arrest, this right is removed for a limited time, when you are imprisoned it is revoked for a given duration. Your punishment is not that you are made cold for lack of blankets, nor that you are made hungry for lack of food. It is that you are made to suffer the loss of control over your life, and somebody else tells you when you can take a poo, or walk on some dirt, or go to bed.

You don't need to see anything "convincing about the actual "punishment" side". If the people are there, they are being punished within the terms of the system and to its maximum constituted extent.

I think that the change happened around the mid 70's to 80's. It has been carried on by Tony Blair. One way to allow people to get back to a single earner may be fully transferable tax allowances. So if a partner wants to stay at home then they transfer their tax allowance to their partner so that they get double tax relief. You could even extend the principle to kids so that someone married with two kids could get the equivalent of 4 personal allowances. They could offset this with eliminating child benefit. Obviously you would have to cap it otherwise it will get abused.

That would make it much easier for people to give up work if they had kids. Having a parent at home does mean that schools have someone who can deal with any problems, there is the increased chance of family meals together which has been shown to help as well. There has to be a better way of just buying gifts for the kids because you are never there.