http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22677513

It's quite obvious what he's getting at, but then that doesn't make for a cheap-shot headline

Journos misquoting people for a cheap headline do my head in.
The guy has a point too, a lot of women believe that forced sex in some conditions is "normal". It's really sad

In some circumstances the woman might be drunk and consenting but in the morning when the beer goggles have worn off they change their mind, is that rape? That should not mean that we stop prosecutions for rape, or treat rape differently.



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Is that not abuse of someone in a diminished condition?
Alternatively, would you say a man who plies women with booze so that they fall into his bed more easily is not doing anything wrong? What if it's drugs?

If drugs are used then that is clearly illegal, already covered in law. I was not saying that a man that plies a woman with booze makes it right. They might have met at the end of the night (like many hookups, so no plying of drink) both are very drunk, the woman goes to the man's home and initiates sex, is that rape if she wakes up in the morning and discovers that she has bedded Shrek? Both were in a diminished state.

What percentage of rape cases do you think that represents? Only a tiny amount of women ever report being raped and usually they have to go against the police scaring them into going to jail for false declaration.
Don't hide the fact that rape is an issue below the fact that every now and then, a man with be accused when he's done nothing wrong.

I have no idea. Most rapes are by someone that the woman knows such as friends and family. Rapes by strangers are thankfully rare. Though it does not diminish the severity of the crime.

I think what Nick Ross was referring to is things such as Marital rape, which was only recognised in the UK in 1991. Many women still don't realise they can refuse sex, even to a boyfriend or husband.

It has never been an issue for me. Willingness is far more erotic than forcing the issue. The problem is would many push ahead with a prosecution if it were a serious relationship and they had kids? Only once it gets extreme will they consider it. There may need to be intervention to stop it before it gets too extreme. I have seen public information films aimed at rape within teenage relationships. Maybe they should do the same for women, and show them during soaps so that they can see that they have options.

I can't see what he's done wrong.
He was commenting on other peoples views on whether rape has taken place, not his own views.
And by the sound of things he's implying it's a bad thing that some people don't see forced sex as rape. Surely we should all agree with that. Why is he getting grief for pointing out other people unfortunately have a different view?

because he's a man suggesting rape may actually be more complicated than 'man criminal woman victim'. There are people who will object to that almost as an act of dogma.

In most situations it is the correct outcome, but there are occasions when it could railroad a jury into a bad conviction. We do need to give women more support to stop it happening within relationships.


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It's only much more complicated than that. How much victim blaming goes on, such as "oh but she was drunk/dressed provocatively/walking outside alone, she deserved it" The default position for me looks like "Men can't stop their urges, it's women who should be careful", which is incredibly patronising and demeaning for men.

Quite so. There is dogmatic thinking on both sides. There are also, unfortunately, groups on both sides who have a vested interest in controversy and well, conflict.

You don't win an argument by patronising and insulting half your audience, even if you're in the right. Whichever way round it is.