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pcernie
Legend
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:30 pm Posts: 45931 Location: Belfast
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22677513It's quite obvious what he's getting at, but then that doesn't make for a cheap-shot headline 
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http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/
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Mon May 27, 2013 10:04 am |
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TheFrenchun
Officially Mrs saspro
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:55 pm Posts: 4955 Location: on the naughty step
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Journos misquoting people for a cheap headline do my head in. The guy has a point too, a lot of women believe that forced sex in some conditions is "normal". It's really sad 
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Mon May 27, 2013 10:56 am |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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In some circumstances the woman might be drunk and consenting but in the morning when the beer goggles have worn off they change their mind, is that rape? That should not mean that we stop prosecutions for rape, or treat rape differently. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.
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Mon May 27, 2013 11:09 am |
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TheFrenchun
Officially Mrs saspro
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:55 pm Posts: 4955 Location: on the naughty step
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Is that not abuse of someone in a diminished condition? Alternatively, would you say a man who plies women with booze so that they fall into his bed more easily is not doing anything wrong? What if it's drugs?
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Mon May 27, 2013 1:36 pm |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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If drugs are used then that is clearly illegal, already covered in law. I was not saying that a man that plies a woman with booze makes it right. They might have met at the end of the night (like many hookups, so no plying of drink) both are very drunk, the woman goes to the man's home and initiates sex, is that rape if she wakes up in the morning and discovers that she has bedded Shrek? Both were in a diminished state.
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Mon May 27, 2013 2:04 pm |
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TheFrenchun
Officially Mrs saspro
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:55 pm Posts: 4955 Location: on the naughty step
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What percentage of rape cases do you think that represents? Only a tiny amount of women ever report being raped and usually they have to go against the police scaring them into going to jail for false declaration. Don't hide the fact that rape is an issue below the fact that every now and then, a man with be accused when he's done nothing wrong.
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Mon May 27, 2013 2:10 pm |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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I have no idea. Most rapes are by someone that the woman knows such as friends and family. Rapes by strangers are thankfully rare. Though it does not diminish the severity of the crime.
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Mon May 27, 2013 3:48 pm |
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TheFrenchun
Officially Mrs saspro
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:55 pm Posts: 4955 Location: on the naughty step
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I think what Nick Ross was referring to is things such as Marital rape, which was only recognised in the UK in 1991. Many women still don't realise they can refuse sex, even to a boyfriend or husband.
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Mon May 27, 2013 3:58 pm |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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It has never been an issue for me. Willingness is far more erotic than forcing the issue. The problem is would many push ahead with a prosecution if it were a serious relationship and they had kids? Only once it gets extreme will they consider it. There may need to be intervention to stop it before it gets too extreme. I have seen public information films aimed at rape within teenage relationships. Maybe they should do the same for women, and show them during soaps so that they can see that they have options.
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Mon May 27, 2013 5:27 pm |
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l3v1ck
What's a life?
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:21 am Posts: 12700 Location: The Right Side of the Pennines (metaphorically & geographically)
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I can't see what he's done wrong. He was commenting on other peoples views on whether rape has taken place, not his own views. And by the sound of things he's implying it's a bad thing that some people don't see forced sex as rape. Surely we should all agree with that. Why is he getting grief for pointing out other people unfortunately have a different view?
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Mon May 27, 2013 8:53 pm |
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jonbwfc
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Posts: 17040
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because he's a man suggesting rape may actually be more complicated than 'man criminal woman victim'. There are people who will object to that almost as an act of dogma.
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Mon May 27, 2013 8:56 pm |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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In most situations it is the correct outcome, but there are occasions when it could railroad a jury into a bad conviction. We do need to give women more support to stop it happening within relationships. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Tue May 28, 2013 12:03 am |
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TheFrenchun
Officially Mrs saspro
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:55 pm Posts: 4955 Location: on the naughty step
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It's only much more complicated than that. How much victim blaming goes on, such as "oh but she was drunk/dressed provocatively/walking outside alone, she deserved it" The default position for me looks like "Men can't stop their urges, it's women who should be careful", which is incredibly patronising and demeaning for men.
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Tue May 28, 2013 6:40 am |
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jonbwfc
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Posts: 17040
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Quite so. There is dogmatic thinking on both sides. There are also, unfortunately, groups on both sides who have a vested interest in controversy and well, conflict. You don't win an argument by patronising and insulting half your audience, even if you're in the right. Whichever way round it is.
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Tue May 28, 2013 8:33 am |
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