Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
This Is Apple's Next iPhone 
Author Message
Spends far too much time on here
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 4876
Location: Newcastle
Reply with quote
jonbwfc wrote:
finlay666 wrote:
Apple didn't fire the employee (considering the Apple Gestapo are pretty damn strict, the guy lost a prototype having drinks FFS), yet an employee who showed Woz the iPad shortly before it was revealed to the public WAS fired.

I haven't seen anything to suggest either guy has been fired beyond internet hearsay. It would seem a bit harsh to fire someone when it's yet to be proved he did anything wrong - the guy who sold the phone to Gizmodo claimed he 'found' it. Yeah, I'm sure lots of car stereos get 'found' every weekend. I wonder if it was in someone's jacket pocket when he 'found' it. Gizmodo say the guy lost it but then they would wouldn't they? All we know for sure is that he was frantically trying to get it back. How it actually came into the possession of the 'finder' we don't know. The fact he sold it to Gizmodo for a few grand suggests he was perectly aware of what it was. If we're being suspicious, let's start from the beginning.


The website can only really say what they have been told, the person who acquired it may have found it or 'found' it.

To suggest the guy that found it frantically tried to get it back sounds a bit of a fantasy, actually it sounds like complete fantasy. The software included allows them to get the GPS location, they could call the device, they could track the damn thing as well as remotely secure the device. If an Apple enthusiast can recover a stolen iPhone themselves using no specialist technology, software or techniques I strongly suspect that they implement such measures in their own devices. I honestly do not believe they tried everything in their power to recover the device, neither however do I believe everything possible was done to honestly return the device given that (if the articles are to be believed) the employee was signed into Facebook on the device, a friend could be contacted alerting them that their friends phone had been found. A lot of unanswered questions still exist.

http://gizmodo.com/5523673/steve-woznia ... ray-powell Apple co-founder on the iPad and iPhone leak
jonbwfc wrote:
finlay666 wrote:
Apple have pulled this kind of crap before with new ways to 'leak' stories to the press to get the hype up on their products.

There's a difference between leaking a story and faking a crime. One gets you publicity, the other gets you a spell in jail. Nobody and I mean nobody is that stupid. I'm sure you've heard of Occam's razor. That would suggest if the two explanations are things happened as described or a conspiracy engineered them to happen that way, you go with the former.

I'm not sure what to believe. I believe there is a lot neither party are saying on the matter so to be honest I'm still not decided on my final opinion. A lot of glaring key questions still remain unanswered weeks for all parties concerned.

jonbwfc wrote:
finlay666 wrote:
I smell something, it's either a red herring or something fishy in general......

I think that may be the strong ganga you're apparently smoking.

I assume you mean ganja and arren't reffering to the Hindi name for the Ganges river. Either way I'm not given my current educational status and lifestyle choices. Either way I'm insulted you seem to think that I use illegal mind altering substances.

jonbwfc wrote:
Quote:
IIRC under US law anything obtained with an illegal warrant can't be used and they can't use it again, so they are pretty boned if the ruling finds it illegal

Not just US law. However the latest statement I saw was that they don't consider the search to be illegal as things stood but they are obliged to check things out as the EFF have questioned the status of the search. I suspect we'll find out one way or the other within 24 hours. As I said, if it turns out the search was illegal the finder may well get away without being prosecuted since his identity will be incidentally protected. However Chen and Gizmodo have put enough evidence in the public domain to possibly allow for a prosecution of purchasing stolen goods to go ahead anyway. I suspect we won't find out that for a while longer.

A legal search warrant that was not granted a night time search was executed and was in progress when the editor returned at 9:45pm. The warrant was executed without regards to legal rights and items. This may still be deemed a legal warrant assuming it was initiated earlier, however the key issue remains:
A warrant cannot be issued to confiscate property of a journalist. As he no longer had the item issuing a warrant to get the iPhone was pointless. Chen's lawyer pointed this out

A key point in buying stolen goods is that they must know it was stolen. They had reason to believe it was genuinely found (as suggested from contacting Apple and it originally being believed to be a hoax)

jonbwfc wrote:
I find your insistence that Apple are somehow the guilty party here despite all the actual evidence (and logic) utterly flabbergasting.

Where did I say Apple were the guilty party? I said they have handled the matter poorly, the employee did the wrong thing and that all parties concerned could have done more. In fact all parties concerned could have done far more to resolve the matter in an adult manner.

The biggest thing Apple are guilty of is having an incredibly secretive development process, so secretive that it lead to their own staff not believing that persons had such prototypes and dismissing it as a hoax

jonbwfc wrote:
The bloke who found it is a thief and Gizmodo and Chen are a load of morons who if they're very lucky will stay out of jail. Anything else is just fantasy.

I would like to see that happen tbh, I can't see it making it going all the way given the sheer number of key facts still unanswered.

A load of morons who will have generated millions more visitors to their site and untold free advertisement on almost every news show in the USA and a lot of UK ones too.

jonbwfc wrote:
Whether Gizmodo are an Apple loving site or not, they've kissed any future relationship with Apple goodbye at this point. let's be honest, there's more chance of Steve Ballmer being announced as Steve Job's successor than there is Gizmodo getting anywhere near any Apple news again.

Maybe, but that is entirely their choice to do so

I think the only things that will come from this:
- Apple get a huge amount of hype for their next iPhone
- Gizmodo get a huge amount of publicity
- Lawyers will make a lot of money from the following civil action

phew, nearly lost that reply from a firefox crash

_________________
Twitter
Charlie Brooker:
Macs are glorified Fisher-Price activity centres for adults; computers for scaredy cats too nervous to learn how proper computers work; computers for people who earnestly believe in feng shui.


Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:10 pm
Profile
Legend
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am
Posts: 29240
Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
Reply with quote
finlay666 wrote:
jonbwfc wrote:
Giving something back only after they ask for it isn't enough to keep you out of hot water under californian law. You're required by law to return something to it's owner at the first opportunity, or to hand it in to the police.


They wrote to them, asked to confirm it was theirs and what it was then they would return it

Surely identifying the rightful owner is something they have to do also......

Yes but his intention was not to return it to them, it was to confirm that it was a new iPhone.

_________________
Do concentrate, 007...

"You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds."

https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTk

http://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21


Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:29 am
Profile
I haven't seen my friends in so long
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 5288
Location: ln -s /London ~
Reply with quote
Amnesia10 wrote:
finlay666 wrote:
jonbwfc wrote:
Giving something back only after they ask for it isn't enough to keep you out of hot water under californian law. You're required by law to return something to it's owner at the first opportunity, or to hand it in to the police.

They wrote to them, asked to confirm it was theirs and what it was then they would return it

Surely identifying the rightful owner is something they have to do also......

Yes but his intention was not to return it to them, it was to confirm that it was a new iPhone.

Which, as I understand it, he did before telling the world he had it, so that nobody would ask for it back until he'd poked about its innards a bit.

_________________
timark_uk wrote:
Gay sex is better than no sex

timark_uk wrote:
Edward Armitage is Awesome. Yes, that's right. Awesome with a A.


Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:09 am
Profile
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm
Posts: 17040
Reply with quote
finlay666 wrote:
http://gizmodo.com/5523673/steve-woznia ... ray-powell Apple co-founder on the iPad and iPhone leak

Um, yeah. At this point I think we can probably say anything Apple or Gizmodo publishes on this or related topics isn't an objective piece of evidence and should be considered partial. Do you have corroboration from a non Apple or Gizmodo source (that isn't just a back reference to the Gizmodo story)?

Finlay666 wrote:
I believe there is a lot neither party are saying on the matter so to be honest I'm still not decided on my final opinion. A lot of glaring key questions still remain unanswered weeks for all parties concerned.

The three parties who still have questions to answer are
a) The engineer - did he get drunk? Did he leave his phone behind? What efforts did he make to retrieve it?
b) The finder - Did they find it or did they take it? Why didn't they do the 'standard thing' - i.e. give it to the owner of the bar? Why didn't they take it to the police ? Why did they try to sell it to Gizmodo instead?
b) Gizmodo/Chen - Why did they pay for it? What legal advice did they get? Why, later, when they knew the possible legal consequences, did they continue to milk the story rather than trying to redress the wrong that was done?

Apple's involvement with the story as far as any evidence or statement so far - and I AM going to ignore the wacky 'it's all been staged' conspiracy theories because I see no evidence to suggest they are anything but that - is to lose a piece of test equipment and, when it came to public light who was in possession of it, ask for it back. Then ask the police to investigate whether it was stolen or not. That is all they've done and, frankly, I don't actually see what else they could have done unless you assume someone at Apple is clairvoyant.

finlay666 wrote:
Either way I'm insulted you seem to think that I use illegal mind altering substances.

You apparently believe it's more likely that Apple engineered this whole farce than it just being a case of an opportunist thief and a journalist who saw dollar signs before his brain got into gear. I can't find a way to square that logic without assuming some sort of neural interference. As I've said many times 'never assume malice where incompetence is a valid explanation'.

Finlay666 wrote:
A legal search warrant that was not granted

That has yet to be finally decided.

Finlay666 wrote:
a night time search was executed and was in progress when the editor returned at 9:45pm. The warrant was executed without regards to legal rights and items.

Well it's hard to issue a search warrant for evidence you don't know about yet. Most search warrants are pretty much for 'anything you can find that might be related to the events under investigation on the premises against which the warrant is issued', at least in the UK - I'm not sure if the details differ in the US. If the police were required to list in detail everything they were going to take into evidence before the warrant was executed, search warrants would be effectively useless.

Finlay666 wrote:
This may still be deemed a legal warrant assuming it was initiated earlier, however the key issue remains:
A warrant cannot be issued to confiscate property of a journalist.

Wrong. If this were true every criminal would pose as a journalist. A warrant cannot be issued against the property of a journalist in the circumstances of an investigation into someone that provided information to the journalist. Is it perfectly possible to issue a warrant against the property of a journalist if the journalist themselves is under investigation. That's a very important distinction. The shield law is there to protect the sources of journalists and to stop journalists being forced to reveal those sources. It does not give journalists carte blanche to do what the hell they like and not be investigated for it.
In this case, things are clouded because we actually have two crimes allegedly being committed. The finder allegedly committed 'theft by finding' when he failed to return the phone to it's owner or hand it in to the police. Gizmodo/Chen allegedly committed 'receiving stolen goods' when they bought the phone. In the case of an investigation into the former, Chen's property is protected by the shield law. In the case of the latter, it is not. The key question is what were the terms of the search warrant in so far as which allegation they referred to.

Finlay666 wrote:
As he no longer had the item issuing a warrant to get the iPhone was pointless. Chen's lawyer pointed this out

And still having the item is the only viable form of evidence in the case of an accusation of 'receiving' is it? That's a new one. And very convenient for the accused, I must say. What about the financial records that show him paying for the phone? What about the phone records that show him communicating with the seller? What about the photographs he took while in possession of the phone? All those are also viable evidence in the investigation and all those are on Chen's property. Chen's lawyer may say they aren't admissible evidence but then he would say that. That's his job.

Finlay666 wrote:
A key point in buying stolen goods is that they must know it was stolen. They had reason to believe it was genuinely found (as suggested from contacting Apple and it originally being believed to be a hoax)

With all due respect, cobblers. Nobody pays five grand for something they think is a hoax. They knew exactly what it was and they knew (or should have known) what the legal consequences of keeping it were. They certainly would have known Apple just wouldn't be giving the things away and anyone that had one that wasn't an Apple employee shouldn't have had it. They either are stupid or are claiming to be now as a defense. Either doesn't reflect well on them.

finley666 wrote:
The biggest thing Apple are guilty of is having an incredibly secretive development process, so secretive that it lead to their own staff not believing that persons had such prototypes and dismissing it as a hoax

Call me weird (and they certainly would) but if I go into the Nokia shop in Manchester and ask them about what prototypes Nokia are brewing up that they haven't announced yet, I'll get some pretty blank looks then too. I haven't heard one objective observer who says that what the finder did could be considered 'reasonable efforts' to return the phone. And selling it to Gizmodo definitely isn't.

Jon


Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:21 am
Profile
Legend
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am
Posts: 29240
Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
Reply with quote
EddArmitage wrote:
Which, as I understand it, he did before telling the world he had it, so that nobody would ask for it back until he'd poked about its innards a bit.

Yes but if you had a new phone and some moron opened it up to check its innards and invalidated the warranty wouldn't you be angry? I would demand that they replace the phone.

_________________
Do concentrate, 007...

"You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds."

https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTk

http://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21


Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:57 am
Profile
I haven't seen my friends in so long
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 5288
Location: ln -s /London ~
Reply with quote
Amnesia10 wrote:
EddArmitage wrote:
Which, as I understand it, he did before telling the world he had it, so that nobody would ask for it back until he'd poked about its innards a bit.

Yes but if you had a new phone and some moron opened it up to check its innards and invalidated the warranty wouldn't you be angry? I would demand that they replace the phone.

What I'm saying is he effectively acknowledged it was valuable by A) paying so much for it and B) opening it all up before telling anyone, expecting someone to want it back once it was made public.

_________________
timark_uk wrote:
Gay sex is better than no sex

timark_uk wrote:
Edward Armitage is Awesome. Yes, that's right. Awesome with a A.


Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:14 am
Profile
Legend
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am
Posts: 29240
Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
Reply with quote
Well I hope the idiot does time for handling stolen goods.

_________________
Do concentrate, 007...

"You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds."

https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTk

http://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21


Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:12 pm
Profile
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm
Posts: 17040
Reply with quote
The Register (not a specifically Apple friendly web site, as has been discussed) have a summary of it here :-

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/28 ... rimewatch/

Jon


Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:20 pm
Profile
Legend
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am
Posts: 29240
Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
Reply with quote
jonbwfc wrote:
The Register (not a specifically Apple friendly web site, as has been discussed) have a summary of it here :-

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/28 ... rimewatch/

Jon

It seems a fair representation of what has happened so far.

_________________
Do concentrate, 007...

"You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds."

https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTk

http://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21


Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:16 pm
Profile
Legend
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am
Posts: 29240
Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
Reply with quote
The Daily Show will be covering the iPhone incident on More 4 tonight. So for Apple fans it is a must see. :D

_________________
Do concentrate, 007...

"You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds."

https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTk

http://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21


Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:59 pm
Profile
Moderator

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:13 pm
Posts: 7262
Location: Here, but not all there.
Reply with quote
Amnesia10 wrote:
The Daily Show will be covering the iPhone incident on More 4 tonight. So for Apple fans it is a must see. :D


No it isn't. I'm not in the least bit interested, frankly.

Storm in a teacup. ;)

_________________
My Flickr | Snaptophobic Bloggage
Heather Kay: modelling details that matter.
"Let my windows be open to receive new ideas but let me also be strong enough not to be blown away by them." - Mahatma Gandhi.


Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:16 pm
Profile
I haven't seen my friends in so long
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:10 pm
Posts: 5836
Reply with quote
Amnesia10 wrote:
The Daily Show will be covering the iPhone incident on More 4 tonight. So for Apple fanboys it is a must see. :D

Corrected

I heartily suspect your run-of-the-mill Mac user won't give a tinker's

_________________
Jim

Image


Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:18 pm
Profile
I haven't seen my friends in so long
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:35 pm
Posts: 6580
Location: Getting there
Reply with quote
rustybucket wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
The Daily Show will be covering the iPhone incident on More 4 tonight. So for Apple fanbois it is a must see. :D

Corrected

I heartily suspect your run-of-the-mill Mac user won't give a tinker's
Corrected :D

I'm interested in what is going on with it now. i.e. how the two (or three) parties are playing the legal system in order to try to get the best outcome.

_________________
Oliver Foggin - iPhone Dev

JJW009 wrote:
The count will go up until they stop counting. That's the way counting works.


Doodle Sub!
Game Of Life

Image Image


Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:24 pm
Profile WWW
Legend
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am
Posts: 29240
Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
Reply with quote
I have 4 macs and countless other stuff with the Apple logo on but would not count myself a fanbois. In tonights show he does rip into Apple.

_________________
Do concentrate, 007...

"You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds."

https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTk

http://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21


Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:35 pm
Profile
I haven't seen my friends in so long
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:35 pm
Posts: 6580
Location: Getting there
Reply with quote
Amnesia10 wrote:
I have 4 macs and countless other stuff with the Apple logo on but would not count myself a fanbois. In tonights show he does rip into Apple.

I was only messing with the fanbois spelling :D

I'm actually quite interested in the whole thing.

Apparently someone from AppleInsider has stated that the case design we saw probably won't be the final case as it's only something to test the hardware in.

_________________
Oliver Foggin - iPhone Dev

JJW009 wrote:
The count will go up until they stop counting. That's the way counting works.


Doodle Sub!
Game Of Life

Image Image


Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:21 pm
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software.