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Vicente Fox backs Mexico drugs legalisation 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-10921975

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Former Mexican president Vicente Fox has called for the legalisation of drugs, arguing that prohibition has failed to curb rising drug-related violence and corruption.

Mr Fox said legalisation did not mean that drugs were good.

But he said it was a strategy that could reduce the power of the cartels.

The current Mexican president, Felipe Calderon last week called for a debate on legalisation, but he said he personally opposed the idea.

More than 28,000 people have died in drug-related violence since Mr Calderon took office and deployed the army to fight the cartels.

It makes sense. 28,000 dead is a hell of a price to pay for a failed policy, and in only 4 years.

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Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:49 am
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Only the scale of the violence makes me even consider legalisation there, and I'm still not sure if it's a good idea :?

I hate even thinking it, but your only other real option is true firepower and/or effectively removing personal freedoms and liberties...

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Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:00 pm
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pcernie wrote:
Only the scale of the violence makes me even consider legalisation there, and I'm still not sure if it's a good idea :?

I hate even thinking it, but your only other real option is true firepower and/or effectively removing personal freedoms and liberties...

Yes but they get a huge amount of support from the US so firepower is not the problem except that the cartels can afford the same firepower.

When you take away civil liberties then you become a police state. The drugs policy does not work. It needs a change of direction. Legalise it and tax it. When its price is so high that it creates a problem funding it creates crime to fund that habit.

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Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:48 pm
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Amnesia10 wrote:
pcernie wrote:
Only the scale of the violence makes me even consider legalisation there, and I'm still not sure if it's a good idea :?

I hate even thinking it, but your only other real option is true firepower and/or effectively removing personal freedoms and liberties...

Yes but they get a huge amount of support from the US so firepower is not the problem except that the cartels can afford the same firepower.

When you take away civil liberties then you become a police state. The drugs policy does not work. It needs a change of direction. Legalise it and tax it. When its price is so high that it creates a problem funding it creates crime to fund that habit.


I'm talking about blowing these people up where possible, shoot on sight, active assassinations etc as options since the stakes are so high anyway. No matter what way you colour it, if the decision is to tackle these scumbags head on, you're gonna wind up having immediate 'escalation' in every possible way, during and for a long time after.

If it was legalised, I'd fully expect them to start shipping more pure coke and heroin than they do anyway. Then the US would really have a problem...

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Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:45 pm
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Never mind Vicente Fox, here's a picture of Megan:

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Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:49 pm
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pcernie wrote:
I'm talking about blowing these people up where possible, shoot on sight, active assassinations etc as options since the stakes are so high anyway. No matter what way you colour it, if the decision is to tackle these scumbags head on, you're gonna wind up having immediate 'escalation' in every possible way, during and for a long time after.

If they did that, then the cartels would retaliate with killings against any police officer, even traffic or desk cops. They might stretch the definition to include families of policemen as well. Then assuming that they only targeted the policemen the impact would be for better widows provisions, or a serious drop in active police numbers. Over the longer term the impact would be for a serious drop in recruitment. You might only join if you already had a terminal illness and wanted to provide for the family.

Then they could target politicians, and that would cause anarchy. They would all demand better protection, so more guards bomb proof BMW's for everyone.

pcernie wrote:
If it was legalised, I'd fully expect them to start shipping more pure coke and heroin than they do anyway. Then the US would really have a problem...

It might not happen that way. Trafficking could still be illegal. Look at Netherlands they have legalised small quantities but they still target smuggling.

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Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:33 pm
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Amnesia10 wrote:
pcernie wrote:
I'm talking about blowing these people up where possible, shoot on sight, active assassinations etc as options since the stakes are so high anyway. No matter what way you colour it, if the decision is to tackle these scumbags head on, you're gonna wind up having immediate 'escalation' in every possible way, during and for a long time after.

If they did that, then the cartels would retaliate with killings against any police officer, even traffic or desk cops. They might stretch the definition to include families of policemen as well. Then assuming that they only targeted the policemen the impact would be for better widows provisions, or a serious drop in active police numbers. Over the longer term the impact would be for a serious drop in recruitment. You might only join if you already had a terminal illness and wanted to provide for the family.

Then they could target politicians, and that would cause anarchy. They would all demand better protection, so more guards bomb proof BMW's for everyone.

pcernie wrote:
If it was legalised, I'd fully expect them to start shipping more pure coke and heroin than they do anyway. Then the US would really have a problem...

It might not happen that way. Trafficking could still be illegal. Look at Netherlands they have legalised small quantities but they still target smuggling.


All the above is exactly what I'd expect to happen if they have any sort of fightback against the Mexican cartels - so a choice needs to be made, but I'd expect full-on violence even if they legalised it anyway, so...

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Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:50 pm
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Yes but a deliberate shoot to kill policy will backfire. We need to cut the demand here as well. I think that decriminalising it here would be beneficial. There can be still greater efforts against smuggling.

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Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:04 pm
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Amnesia10 wrote:
Yes but a deliberate shoot to kill policy will backfire. We need to cut the demand here as well. I think that decriminalising it here would be beneficial. There can be still greater efforts against smuggling.


No matter what they do it will backfire (especially since you've civilians at every part of the chain), it's now become what they're willing to endure. And the demand for the drugs is outside Mexico; IMO it's too late to set up a business plan for legalisation never mind a fully functional enterprise.

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Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:41 pm
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Yes the problem is in the US. That is who the message is aimed at. Mexico is just an victim in all this.

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Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:59 pm
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