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adidan wrote:
And as for WWII how did we go about getting out of that recession? Oh, didn't we actually invest and create the NHS?


We had to go cap in hand to the USA for a mahoosive loan, if I recall. Britain was all but bankrupted by the war. We only finished paying the loan back in the last decade or so.

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:41 am
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HeatherKay wrote:
We had to go cap in hand to the USA for a mahoosive loan, if I recall. Britain was all but bankrupted by the war. We only finished paying the loan back in the last decade or so.

Yup, indeed we did. That also why I found it odd that we still basically jumped when they shouted about Iraq. Before we basically did what they said as we owed them cash, once we'd paid them off I thought things would be different.

I know, I'm a fool.

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:46 am
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Amnesia10 wrote:
it is a bit rich that every single time they repeat the mantra that it was the mess that Labour left them. I get annoyed that the interviewers do not comment about every other country that has the same problems. None of which are anything to do with Labour.


Labour are not at fault for the recession, but the parlous state of our finances. That other countries were as profligate with their spending during years of boom does not let them off the hook.

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:57 am
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dogbert10 wrote:
adidan wrote:
And another thing...

Cameron kept going on about the biggest budget deficit out of wartime. Hang on, we are at war, we've been at war in 2 countries. I don't think it's any coincidence that we go into recession during times of conflict when we spend absolute billions on munitions and forces.

And as for WWII how did we go about getting out of that recession? Oh, didn't we actually invest and create the NHS?

It's sh!te thinking and to see the LidDems nodding like drugged up interrogees makes me sick.


I hardly think you can compare the period after WW2 to now. Back then, people weren't as selfish as they are now, and we didn't have a public sector full of useless monkeys who's only contribution is to hoover up or taxes.

Yes but who created the selfish generation? Not Labour.

dogbert10 wrote:
Take, for example, the power station where my father used to work. When it was state-owned, there were twice as many people working there as there are now, yet it still works just fine. The problem we have now is that thousands of people in jobs that were created solely to prop up the last Labour government. We should employ the right number of the right people and no more.

Yes but there have been the advent of computers and automation since then. Also power generation was privatised deliberately because of the abuse of power by the union. By breaking the generators up it destroyed the power of the union.

I agree about get rid of the non jobs and slimming down the bureaucracy but these cuts will do little against that. It will either cut pay or jobs so you could still have useless scrotes just on lower pay or shorter hours. These cuts will mean that any of you single people who are made redundant will have to move home as well, as they will cut the housing benefit to a level so that you will have to move into shared accommodation. Also there are non jobs in the NHS and these will be protected. What should have happened is efficiency savings first, getting rid of non jobs in all departments and then work out the cuts. Even the NHS could do with some serious slimming, far too many administrators to start with, even though they were created by the Tories.

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:08 am
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dogbert10 wrote:
The problem we have now is that thousands of people in jobs that were created solely to prop up the last Labour government.

Er, remember who created Quangos in the first place?

As to say people weren't as selfish around the 50's after the war is rather nonsensical TBH. History is always viewed with hugely rose tinted glasses, hence why every generation seems to regard the younger generation as being troublesome and violent whereas our childhoods were so lovely where the sun always shone, people skipped to work and the ice cream never melted...

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:26 am
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Why are they keeping the winter fuel allowance for everyone BTW? Lord Sugar still can't stop his...

This coalition is as logical as a paper fire guard.

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:28 am
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adidan wrote:
dogbert10 wrote:
The problem we have now is that thousands of people in jobs that were created solely to prop up the last Labour government.

Er, remember who created Quangos in the first place?


Doesn't matter who created them - Labour was in power for 13 years yet did nothing to reign in the burgeoning public sector - it used the classic ostrich approach and buried it's head in the sand and just expected the money to keep pouring in, making no attempt to keep the finances balanced.

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:54 am
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dogbert10 wrote:
Doesn't matter who created them - Labour was in power for 13 years yet did nothing to reign in the burgeoning public sector - it used the classic ostrich approach and buried it's head in the sand and just expected the money to keep pouring in, making no attempt to keep the finances balanced.

My point is is that it doesn't matter. Labour handled it badly and the Tories are doing no better. The disappointing thing is the LibDems are also in the same pot now.

They've been very clever in refocussing discussions to be about the welfare state. The MPs expenses, the bankers, the money spent on pointless conflicts and so on are just pushed into the background while they get the public to bicker amongst themselves, be it between which party is worse or who takes most from the State.

I mean, come on, people dieing of cancer on incapacity benefit are scared to leave the house, on a good day, because they're worried that they may be spotted and have their benefits withdrawn. A society that creates that sort of angst amongst its people is not a society worth having.

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:59 am
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HeatherKay wrote:
adidan wrote:
And as for WWII how did we go about getting out of that recession? Oh, didn't we actually invest and create the NHS?


We had to go cap in hand to the USA for a mahoosive loan, if I recall. Britain was all but bankrupted by the war. We only finished paying the loan back in the last decade or so.


I started a reply, and also used the word “mahoosive” :lol: . It was huge, and it was a Conservative government that landed us with it too. Politicians of every hue like to play fast and loose with the truth to fit their own ends and to keep “on message”.

The Tories love to keep their rich pals happy, so I would not be at all surprised if Osbourne kicked a beggar on his way to his club after delivering the spending review yesterday.

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:16 am
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paulzolo wrote:
It was huge, and it was a Conservative government that landed us with it too


I thought it was the Labour Atlee government that had to take the loan.

Anyway, it's all history now. We've got a financial crisis to fix. :(

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:26 am
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HeatherKay wrote:
Anyway, it's all history now. We've got a financial crisis to fix. :(

Yeah, be nice if somebody got round to doing that at some point, rather than using it as an excuse to push through a bunch of changes based around dogma as much as logic.


Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:13 am
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HeatherKay wrote:
paulzolo wrote:
It was huge, and it was a Conservative government that landed us with it too


I thought it was the Labour Atlee government that had to take the loan.


He was (my mistake). The loan was taken out post WWII as a result of various agreements made during the war being terminated.

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The post-war loan was part-driven by the Americans' termination of the [Lend-Lease] scheme. Under the programme, the US had effectively donated equipment for the war effort, but anything left over in Britain at the end of hostilities and still needed would have to be paid for.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4757181.stm

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:15 am
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dogbert10 wrote:
adidan wrote:
And another thing...
Take, for example, the power station where my father used to work. When it was state-owned, there were twice as many people working there as there are now, yet it still works just fine. The problem we have now is that thousands of people in jobs that were created solely to prop up the last Labour government. We should employ the right number of the right people and no more.


Been said already, there's a lot more automation now.

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:46 am
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mikepgood wrote:
dogbert10 wrote:
adidan wrote:
And another thing...
Take, for example, the power station where my father used to work. When it was state-owned, there were twice as many people working there as there are now, yet it still works just fine. The problem we have now is that thousands of people in jobs that were created solely to prop up the last Labour government. We should employ the right number of the right people and no more.


Been said already, there's a lot more automation now.

I didn't write that BTW. Although, strangely enough, my dad worked in a power station.

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:49 am
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jonbwfc wrote:
HeatherKay wrote:
Anyway, it's all history now. We've got a financial crisis to fix. :(

Yeah, be nice if somebody got round to doing that at some point, rather than using it as an excuse to push through a bunch of changes based around dogma as much as logic.

Yes there has been no real financial reform at all so we will still be at risk of the banks crashing again. And not before long if the government carry on. The banks need to be broken up, with a tax on transactions which will seriously reduce the bonus pool anyway, so no need for a bonus tax. If mortgages were restricted to building societies only who are denied access to the money markets it would keep mortgages simpler and stop the housing bubble getting out of hand again which is one reason why housing benefit is so high.

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Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:01 am
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