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Privacy body to re-examine Google 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11614970

You have to wonder how many other companies would have just said nothing :oops:

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:52 am
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I would have thought Zinga and Facebook were worth more investigation... :?

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:35 pm
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Why did these cars even have the facilities built in to record these details. All they needed for streetview was cameras and gps. How can they fit them with WiFi equipment and then claim they had no intention of accessing WiFi data?

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:17 pm
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l3v1ck wrote:
Why did these cars even have the facilities built in to record these details. All they needed for streetview was cameras and gps. How can they fit them with WiFi equipment and then claim they had no intention of accessing WiFi data?


Not sure about the Wi-Fi bit, but Google said it was like a leftover bit of code that should never have been there IIRC :?

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:27 pm
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pcernie wrote:
l3v1ck wrote:
Why did these cars even have the facilities built in to record these details. All they needed for streetview was cameras and gps. How can they fit them with WiFi equipment and then claim they had no intention of accessing WiFi data?

Not sure about the Wi-Fi bit, but Google said it was like a leftover bit of code that should never have been there IIRC :?

You slightly miss his point. Even if it was leftover code why was it in there in the first place? There was no function that code could serve that wasn't a breach of privacy.

Jon


Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:24 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
pcernie wrote:
l3v1ck wrote:
Why did these cars even have the facilities built in to record these details. All they needed for streetview was cameras and gps. How can they fit them with WiFi equipment and then claim they had no intention of accessing WiFi data?

Not sure about the Wi-Fi bit, but Google said it was like a leftover bit of code that should never have been there IIRC :?

You slightly miss his point. Even if it was leftover code why was it in there in the first place? There was no function that code could serve that wasn't a breach of privacy.

Jon


I dunno, hence the ' :? ', ;)

Wiki has this to say, which brings the engineers into it really:

Quote:
During 2006-2010 Google Streetview camera cars collected about 600 gigabytes of data from users of unencrypted public and private WiFi networks in more than 30 countries. No disclosures nor privacy policy was given to those affected, nor to the owners of the WiFi stations. A Google representative claimed that they were not aware of their own data collection activities until an inquiry from German regulators was received, and that none of this data was used in Google's search engine or other services. A representative of Consumer Watchdog replied, "Once again, Google has demonstrated a lack of concern for privacy. Its computer engineers run amok, push the envelope and gather whatever data they can until their fingers are caught in the cookie jar." In a sign that legal penalties may result, Google said it will not destroy the data until permitted by regulators.[209][210]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google#Privacy

:|

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:40 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
pcernie wrote:
l3v1ck wrote:
Why did these cars even have the facilities built in to record these details. All they needed for streetview was cameras and gps. How can they fit them with WiFi equipment and then claim they had no intention of accessing WiFi data?

Not sure about the Wi-Fi bit, but Google said it was like a leftover bit of code that should never have been there IIRC :?

You slightly miss his point. Even if it was leftover code why was it in there in the first place? There was no function that code could serve that wasn't a breach of privacy.

Jon

They were building their own version of the Skyhook service, which has a list of SSID in the area. This helps devices without GPS to try and locate themselves.

They used a piece of open source software from another project, which happened to also store the packets that were unencrypted. Nobody noticed it was there, until they were well into the project, which is when they came clean - if they had kept their traps shut and just deleted the data, nobody would have been any the wiser...

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:04 pm
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big_D wrote:
I would have thought Zinga and Facebook were worth more investigation... :?

Especially since it seems that it is every month that Facebook change its terms and conditions and security is downgraded every time.

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:11 pm
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Amnesia10 wrote:
big_D wrote:
I would have thought Zinga and Facebook were worth more investigation... :?

Especially since it seems that it is every month that Facebook change its terms and conditions and security is downgraded every time.

Yes but people have volunteered their information to Facebook and have a chance to agree to terms

In this case Google took info without permission or need.

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:25 pm
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rustybucket wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
big_D wrote:
I would have thought Zinga and Facebook were worth more investigation... :?

Especially since it seems that it is every month that Facebook change its terms and conditions and security is downgraded every time.

Yes but people have volunteered their information to Facebook and have a chance to agree to terms

In this case Google took info without permission or need.

Ye I would accept that. There are serious breaches and Google should destroy that data. As far as Facebook though while you may have to agree again how many actually re set their privacy levels back to the maximum again? That is probably why they keep doing it. The average person does not have the time or patience to double check everything that Facebook do.

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:59 pm
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rustybucket wrote:
In this case Google took info without permission or need.

As far as I'm concerned, any unencrypted data broadcast onto the streets is as much public property as the view. You may as well display your data in a shop window.

The only application the collected data was ever intended for was to help people locate themselves by visible SSIDs. That's pretty honourable.

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Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:33 pm
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rustybucket wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
big_D wrote:
I would have thought Zinga and Facebook were worth more investigation... :?

Especially since it seems that it is every month that Facebook change its terms and conditions and security is downgraded every time.

Yes but people have volunteered their information to Facebook and have a chance to agree to terms

In this case Google took info without permission or need.

Yes and no... Facebook started out as a private network, where you could only communicate with friends, after each new change in security and EULA, the private information is less private and open to more and more people...

I agree, that people signing up today will probably know that their information is going to be fairly open, regardless of what security settings they use, but people who have been on it for several years joined with the expectation that their information was private, to be shared only with friends. That is what is changing - add in the selling off of that information to third parties and the scraping of information Zinga (among others) were caught doing last week...

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Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:06 am
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FTC Concludes Investigation Into Google's Street View Data Collection Without Penalties

from the not-such-a-big-deal dept

For all the hype about Google's Street View data collection, it appears that the FTC now agrees that it was an accident, where Google didn't even realize it was collecting the data. Even with the recent revelation that some of the data included emails and passwords, the FTC has now concluded its investigation of Google, and won't be punishing the company. It appears the FTC is satisfied that Google did not realize it was collecting this data and that the company did nothing with it. Combined with the company's new policies to try to avoid such things in the future, the FTC appears to believe no further action is necessary.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201010 ... ties.shtml


Why Google's Street View WiFi Data Collection Was Almost Certainly An Accident

from the technical-details dept

We've been among those who have believed that Google's collection of WiFi data via its Street View cars was likely an accident -- but some have argued that it is impossible to do such a thing by accident. In fact, in the various lawsuits and legal maneuverings around this mess, many people keep claiming that there's simply no way Google was accidentally collecting this data -- although we've yet to hear a single person explain what Google would possibly want with the data, or seen a single shred of evidence that anything was ever done with the data. However, for those who insist it is impossible to for this to have happened by accident, Slashdot points us to a detailed technical analysis of why it almost certainly was an accident, despite all the claims to the contrary.

It explains, in great detail, how and why the collection of data packets would occur, mainly to help triangulate where the WiFi network was located -- something that Google has always admitted to doing. The problem was that some of the junk data (a very tiny amount, again, as explained in the article) got caught and retained, when it should have been dumped:

Although some people are suspicious of their explanation, Google is almost certainly telling the truth when it claims it was an accident. The technology for WiFi scanning means it's easy to inadvertently capture too much information, and be unaware of it.

It then goes on to show how all of this works, using a specific example from within a Panera Bread restaurant that has open WiFi, which the author uses to demonstrate just how easy it is to capture stray data, why it would make sense and also just how useless most of that data really would be. It's pretty convincing, but I doubt it will satisfy the conspiracy theorists who are just absolutely positive Google had something nefarious planned.

The key issue, as has been pointed out repeatedly, is that most people arguing nefarious intent don't seem to understand what Google was actually doing. It was trying to map the location of WiFi base-stations, a perfectly legal activity that a small group of companies have been doing for years. But in order to best figure out the location of the networks, it's helpful to have as much data as possible that traversing over the access point. The system doesn't care or need to know what that data is, it just wants as much data as possible for the purpose of triangulating. The problem was that Google's system "kept" the data that it got, even though there's been no evidence presented that the the data was ever used for anything (a key point that those screaming "criminal intent" repeatedly gloss over). On top of that, no one even explains why Google would want such data. The little snippets would be so random it's difficult to come up with any reason why keeping such data would be useful.

Triangulation is a lot harder than you'd think. This is because many things will block or reflect the signal. Therefore, as the car drives buy, it wants to get every single packet transmitted by the access-point in order to figure out its location. Curiously, with all that data, Google can probably also figure out the structure of the building, by finding things like support columns that obstruct the signal.

What's important about this packet is that Google only cares about the MAC addresses found in the header, and the signal strength, but doesn't care about the payload. If you look further down in the payload [in the example data from an open WiFi network in Panera], you'll notice that it's inadvertently captured a URL.

Take a look again. Even though the access-point MAC address is highlighted, there's extra data in the packet. These extra data will include URLs, fragments of data returned from websites (like images), the occasional password, cookies, fragments of e-mails, and so on. However, the quantity of this information will be low compared to the total number of packets sniffed by Google.

That's the core of this problem. Google sniffed packets, only caring about MAC addresses and SSIDs, but when somebody did an audit, they found that the captured packets occasionally contained more data, such as URLs and e-mail fragments.

I agree with the conclusion to the post. Just because this was pretty clearly an accident, it still doesn't make it a good thing. Google clearly should have realized this much earlier and never allowed such data to be captured. But those running around screaming about how this was all pre-meditated by Google are going to have to offer up a lot more evidence.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201006 ... 9918.shtml

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Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:00 pm
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It's nice to see a sound judgement reached by the technically literate override the ignorant paranoia of the illiterate.

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Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:08 am
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I will accept this was an accident. If there are any legal proceedings then a simple €1 fine might be enough to settle this. This was unintentional and so really should not be punished.

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Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:32 am
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