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Jobs on iPhone tracking fears: 'We don't track anyone'
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big_D
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:25 pm Posts: 10691 Location: Bramsche
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This is very Google of them. http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/security/36 ... s-patentedhttp://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2011/04/28 ... -of-apple/My problem isn't so much that they collect the data, but that they are doing without explicitly saying so and that they store it for so long, if it was anonimised and sent to Apple, why do they need to store over a year on the 'phone - after denying they were doing it, they now say the retention is a bug. Likewise, their initial denial that they were doing anything of the sort, then to backtrack and now we see that they patented this, so that they could sell it to third parties... It is disingenuous and it puts Apple in an ever worsening light. Apple seems to be Apple's worst enemy at the moment. Apple need to become more transparent about this sort of thing. They seem to treat security and user privacy concerns as if they were a mad aunt who stripped off in the middle of the shopping mall, they keep denying that it happened, until somebody shows them the security video, then they rush out a fix and try and a put positive spin on it.
_________________ "Do you know what this is? Hmm? No, I can see you do not. You have that vacant look in your eyes, which says hold my head to your ear, you will hear the sea!" - Londo Molari
Executive Producer No Agenda Show 246
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Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:12 am |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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 |  |  |  | big_D wrote: This is very Google of them. http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/security/36 ... s-patentedhttp://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2011/04/28 ... -of-apple/My problem isn't so much that they collect the data, but that they are doing without explicitly saying so and that they store it for so long, if it was anonimised and sent to Apple, why do they need to store over a year on the 'phone - after denying they were doing it, they now say the retention is a bug. Likewise, their initial denial that they were doing anything of the sort, then to backtrack and now we see that they patented this, so that they could sell it to third parties... It is disingenuous and it puts Apple in an ever worsening light. Apple seems to be Apple's worst enemy at the moment. Apple need to become more transparent about this sort of thing. They seem to treat security and user privacy concerns as if they were a mad aunt who stripped off in the middle of the shopping mall, they keep denying that it happened, until somebody shows them the security video, then they rush out a fix and try and a put positive spin on it. |  |  |  |  |
If you look at the maps that can be created by getting the data, they do not follow you anywhere. It's radio masts and (possibly) WiFi hot spots. For example, I went to Walton on the Essex coast last weekend, and if you were to believe the iPhone data, I was also in Felixstowe. It certainly failed to track me to the end of the pier - even though GPS would easily pinpoint me there (the Maps app on the phone put me there, but that is not recorded in the data that is being discussed). Her is my blog on the matter, along with incriminating maps showing the centre of Chlemsford and where the iPhone has logged masts. You will note that nowhere have I been pinpointed in the high street. You will also see the Walton map showing the masts located and my walk from the Naze to the end of pier - which I had to draw on myself because the iPhone's data didn't track me. http://hairydalek.posterous.com/where-am-i
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Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:43 am |
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big_D
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:25 pm Posts: 10691 Location: Bramsche
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And if you read notes about the software carefully, at least the one I looked at, they deliberately fuzz the data, so it isn't accurate... Again, the problem ISN'T THAT THEY COLLECTED THE DATA, but that they first said they weren't collecting the data, then they weren't receiving the data, even though tools had been released which analysed the file on people's computers. Then they said it was a bug, now we find that they patented the bug over 2 years ago. That is the problem. Instead of coming clean and telling the truth and saving face, they tried to deny it happens, until enough sites had reported about Apple denying something that was obviously happening, then they tried to change the story, more sites point out that they are telling porkies again, then they change the story further, get caught in another lie... Why not tell the truth in the first place, it would have caused less of a problem for Apple's image. 
_________________ "Do you know what this is? Hmm? No, I can see you do not. You have that vacant look in your eyes, which says hold my head to your ear, you will hear the sea!" - Londo Molari
Executive Producer No Agenda Show 246
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Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:22 am |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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Even with data “fuzzed” you would expect to see some form of trend based on phone masts in the area. For example, in a recent trip to London, I spent a good amount of time in the Bloomsbury area (the Comic museum), and a walk to St James’s Park through Covent Garden and Leicester Square. So you would expect to see “hits” around the British Museum, Covent Garden and St James’s Park. Not so - the big hit appears to be just Leicester Square, and (oddly) PImlico. Nothing clustering close to Bloomsbury or St James’s park, which are the places where the most amount of time was spent. In blurred data, I would expect a big dot on or near BUckingham Palace and the British Museum. According to the iPhone data, I was never there.
Similarly, a coastal walk puts me more in Felixstowe and Harwich rather than Walton (which is where I really was). There are, obviously, more phone masts in the bigger towns than there are in Walton, and the phone latches on to those. Unless I can see properly de-obfuscated plots of my position, I’ll maintain my point that the data being gathered is useless - it’s not got the resolution needed to provide accurate plots of where the phone was.
You must also remember that whatever you do in your modern life, you leave a data trail - cerdit/debit cards, loyalty cards, cars are starting to being traced using number plates, TomTom and other GPS devices are keeping track of where you have been (see what happens to that data in another thread on this forum), Android and Windows Mobile are also tracking you. You are leaving massive data footprints every day. How many of these methods asked you permission to do this? How many of these have private companies’ interests at heart? Modern society almost demands that you use these devices to follow you around.
I find this whole iPhone business completely inline with other business’ practices. If you don’t like being tracked, then leave the phone at home, pay only with cash, withdraw cash from the bank using cheques. Sell the car. Switch off the internet, and buy a typewriter. Walk everywhere.
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Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:52 am |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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South Park have a lovely take on the Apple tracking issue and even the iPad 2, in the episode 1 of series 15. It hasa a lovely location map of everyone. Also a lovely comment about new terms and conditions every three weeks with iTunes. 
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:03 am |
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jonbwfc
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Posts: 17040
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Just a note to say the 'fixed' firmware update is apparently out. Afterwards the device will only keep a week's data cached and will delete the cache if you set 'location services' off.
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Wed May 04, 2011 8:48 pm |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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In which case this has been a non issue.
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Wed May 04, 2011 8:58 pm |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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But only if you have supported hardware. My iPhone 3G won't get this update, so will still be "tracking" me, despite having iOS 4, and therefore the initial bugs the new software aims to fix.
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Wed May 04, 2011 9:14 pm |
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ProfessorF
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:56 pm Posts: 12030
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Or, and this might sound daft, just turn off the location services when you don't it. Save that battery too.
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Wed May 04, 2011 9:25 pm |
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jonbwfc
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Posts: 17040
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I find that a bit... confusing. You've got iOS 4, but you won't get this update? How does that work? I assume you've got a some sort of jailbroken iOS 4 variant? Jon
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Wed May 04, 2011 10:38 pm |
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ProfessorF
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:56 pm Posts: 12030
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The update only covers the 3GS, not the 3G, apparently. 
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Wed May 04, 2011 10:41 pm |
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jonbwfc
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Posts: 17040
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Well that was kind of what I thought.I thought it was iOS4 that wouldn't run on the 3G at all, that was the 'break point' when they stopped supporting the 3G and the original iPhone. What actual version of iOS is your phone running?
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Wed May 04, 2011 10:46 pm |
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big_D
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:25 pm Posts: 10691 Location: Bramsche
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As part of the bug was, that the iPhone continued to record this information with the location services switched off, that isn't going to help much...
_________________ "Do you know what this is? Hmm? No, I can see you do not. You have that vacant look in your eyes, which says hold my head to your ear, you will hear the sea!" - Londo Molari
Executive Producer No Agenda Show 246
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Thu May 05, 2011 4:02 am |
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ProfessorF
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:56 pm Posts: 12030
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Thu May 05, 2011 6:34 am |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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It's a 3G running 4.2.1 - that's the cut off point. Really, the 3G should not ave been allowed to update to iOS 4. However, as it was, it implies iOS 4 should cover it. You don't hear of certain Mac models suddenly becoming unsupported half way through an OS update cycle. It's always the major releases which define cut off points. As such, the expectation is that Apple should address this bug for all iOS devices affected by it, but they won't.
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Thu May 05, 2011 7:27 am |
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