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Mars: Nasa images show signs of flowing water 
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Mars: Nasa images show signs of flowing water

Well not flowing exactly, but certainly a good indication.

I propose we send a rover to that area. Not only can it investigate further but it could also drop off several varieties of hardy salt tolerant plant and animal life.

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Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:53 pm
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There is no water now. It could either be under ground in ice blocks or have evaporated away.

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Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:21 pm
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They are saying that the tendrils appear and disappear with the Martian seasons, their theory suggests this is happening now.

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Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:22 am
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I wonder what it would take to send some sort of solar powered low flying aircraft to Mars?

Equip it with high res cameras and spectroscopy type stuff and send it to mars to send back high res images of the surface but able to cover a massive area in a short amount of time.

Maybe even dropping payloads either to just disrupt the surface to get a picture from underneath the surface or with smallers drone type robots that can collect further samples from the ground.

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Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:30 am
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We need more than quick drops and mini robots now. It’s clear that exploration of Mars requires better hardware, and the flexibility to be able to travel big distances quickly. Flying drones is a good idea, but I’d suggest a few automated base labs, with the ability to control and gather data from probes. These could be upgraded for human explorers to visit.

Ideally, we need a team of scientists on the planet looking at this stuff first hand. Right now, it’s like trying to judge the bus timetable by just looking at the photos on Google Earth. You can see that there ARE busses, but you’ve no real idea when or where they are right now.

So - send flying probes and more complex rovers now.

In 5 years time, drop upgradeable automated labs with more onsite processing power.

In 7 years time, fast track human exploration.

Ideally, I would like to see humans on Mars before I’m 50, but I’ll settle for 55.

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Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:05 am
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I want faster-than-light travel first. No point going to Mars if it takes decades each way.

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Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:53 pm
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Fogmeister wrote:
I wonder what it would take to send some sort of solar powered low flying aircraft to Mars?

Aircraft need air. That would take some organising on Mars!

You could have a rocket powered explorer, but it would be expensive to carry the necessary propellant all the way there. Of course, if they find water then it would be easier to refuel!

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Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:55 pm
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JJW009 wrote:
Fogmeister wrote:
I wonder what it would take to send some sort of solar powered low flying aircraft to Mars?

Aircraft need air. That would take some organising on Mars!

Actually, no. Aircraft need atmosphere, not air. Our air is just a particular mix of gases. I'd have to check exactly what the composition of Mars's atmosphere is but it's unfeasible that it could be capable of supporting a device that benefits from aerodynamic lift. Obviously it would have to use electrically powered propellers to get around though, as the atmospheric mix certainly isn't good for combustion or jet engines.

Say you have a 'pod' hung from a balloon or parachute detached from a satellite in martian orbit. At some high enough altitude inside the atmosphere, the pod opens and the 'drone' is then deployed. The drone is essentially a UAV, and can be used to made observations of the planet for longer and over a wider area than a simple package on a parachute or balloon could during descent.

The main problem actually would be turbulence - the timelag for communications between here and Mars is way to long to allow the drone to actually be piloted. It would have to be effectively autonomous, able to maintain an altitude and course in even extreme local weather conditions.

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Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:11 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
Actually, no. Aircraft need atmosphere, not air. Our air is just a particular mix of gases. I'd have to check exactly what the composition of Mars's atmosphere is but it's unfeasible that it could be capable of supporting a device that benefits from aerodynamic lift.

I was using "air" in the loosest terms. I could have said "atmosphere of sufficient density for significant aerodynamic lift on surfaces of a realistic dimensions at a controllable speed" but it would have been neither funny nor succinct.

According to Wiki, Mars has:

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a mean surface level pressure of 600 pascals (0.087 psi), compared to Earth's sea level average of 101.3 kilopascals (14.69 psi)


Even with the lower gravity, that's going to present more than a small challenge to controlled aerodynamic flight.

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Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:48 pm
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I would have thought the dust storms would prove a major impediment to solar-powered craft of any variety.

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The Rovers didn't do at all badly, even with the dust storms.









Poor things.

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Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:06 pm
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JJW009 wrote:
According to Wiki, Mars has:
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a mean surface level pressure of 600 pascals (0.087 psi), compared to Earth's sea level average of 101.3 kilopascals (14.69 psi)

Even with the lower gravity, that's going to present more than a small challenge to controlled aerodynamic flight.

Indeed, That's why I caveated what I said, it's density of atmosphere that matters and thats.. really thin. You'd have to have something with huge wing area to stay aloft with that little gas passing over the wings. In fact you'd probably have to give up on the idea of wings at all, and have the whole thing be an aerodynamic surface so it ends up looking more like a manta ray than a plane. And of course something very big and very light would also be that much more susceptible to damage from turbulence.

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Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:22 pm
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I thought Mars didn't have an atmosphere or some such?

forgive me - Fri PM, busy surgery (well one pt is a no-show) and I could have had the afternoon off if I'd been a bit more yappy.

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Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:25 pm
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cloaked_wolf wrote:
I thought Mars didn't have an atmosphere or some such?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Mars

IIRC Earth, Mars, and Venus all have atmospheres, insofar as they have a gaseous envelope surrounding the planet. The gas giants.. I can't say if you consider them to have atmospheres or that they are atmospheres. Mercury has had whatever atmosphere it might have captured burned off by it's proximity to the sun. I can't remember if Pluto has an atmosphere or not, but then apparently Pluto isn't a planet any more so...

Course, some of the gas giant moons also have atmospheres.


Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:48 pm
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So what layer is Mars missing? Seem to recall it's missing a layer which is why Mars is Mars and not like Earth, and if it happens to us, we'll end up like Mars. My head hurts. I think I need a Mars bar!

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