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British workers to lose jobs under new EU rules 
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koli wrote:
adidan wrote:
I took mine at the time as that was the only job being offered at the company

Have they put a gun to your head and said you gotta take it? Or there wasn't any other company that would want your services?

Some of us have families and mortgages to pay y'know Koli.

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Sometimes I feel like I am living in France...

Well this time you sound like you're living somewhere much, much further away.

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Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:35 pm
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koli wrote:
But isn't working on temp contracts a personal choice of those who do it? If you want "permanent job" benefits get a "permanent job", no?

No.

There are not enough jobs to go round. Simple supply and demand means that the employers get to dictate terms.

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Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:38 pm
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Something I omitted in my earlier reply.

Koli did you stop to think as to why the company wanted to retain experienced staff? It was because a competitor started stealing all the temporary workers with offers of full time jobs, the company were hemorrhaging staff because the temporary workers just had rolling contracts through the various agencies and therefore jumped at the chance.

They finally saw sense and acted before they lost all of use, having to give seriously better packages in order to stay. They hadn't done so before because they didn't have to.

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Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:45 pm
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adidan wrote:
They finally saw sense and acted before they lost all of use, having to give seriously better packages in order to stay. They hadn't done so before because they didn't have to.

That's exactly what I am talking about - supply and demand. You can bring in laws and regulations all you want, all it does is it distorts markets...

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Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:30 pm
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koli wrote:
So if you are not happy with the one you have (or one you are being offered), go and find a better one. If you can't find a better it means that the one you have (or the one you are being offered) is what you deserve, or maybe it is even too good for you so just keep quiet and be happy with what you have (or you are being offered). Best jobs for best people. If you can't get it you are not good enough and you should drop your price.

I know it sounds harsh but why should a company pay more that it has to for your services? Would you work for less money if you company was in trouble (and you had a choice to go elsewhere)? I really doubt it. So why should company show you the same courtesy? The price of labour is given by a demand and supply, people tend to forget that...

Sometimes I feel like I am living in France...

Well at lower levels pay is set by the minimum wage, and at higher levels what they can get away with. A lot of company bosses are over paid yet because that is the going rate, nothing to do with what they are worth or how valuable they are to the company.

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Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:50 pm
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Surely if you are temporary there is no chance you'll be at the same place of work from one week to the next? The company could request it but the agency could just send someone else...

I personally think it should be down to the agency to sort sick leave and holidays, surely that's one of the perks of getting in temporary workers - you don't have to do all of the HR stuff...?


Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:32 pm
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forquare1 wrote:
Surely if you are temporary there is no chance you'll be at the same place of work from one week to the next? The company could request it but the agency could just send someone else...

I personally think it should be down to the agency to sort sick leave and holidays, surely that's one of the perks of getting in temporary workers - you don't have to do all of the HR stuff...?

No I do agree with agency staff but they do not make up all temporary staff. When the Post office recruit extra staff at christmas they do it themselves or via the job centre. What will happen is that the agencies will pass the extra costs on to employers, but the agencies could save money by being more efficient with the back office so the extra costs can be minimal. Also companies that are that cheap and will not pay these costs are probably not good to work for anyway. I suspect that what will happen is that they sack staff every few weeks and rehire to get around the time limits.

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Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:30 am
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koli wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I am living in France...

I'd take France over the USA any day of the week. Unadulterated capitalism is ugly and inhuman.

Having a job is not a "privilege", I would argue that having the means to provide for yourself and your family is the very definition of a basic human right.

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That's exactly what I am talking about - supply and demand. You can bring in laws and regulations all you want, all it does is it distorts markets...

Markets need regulating and distorting.

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Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:44 am
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Linux_User wrote:
Having a job is not a "privilege", I would argue that having the means to provide for yourself and your family is the very definition of a basic human right.

Friend of mine worked for EA in the US for a while. Some of the stories he told me would turn your hair white. They start from the fact that when they terminated his contract (at a week's notice) he had a further week to wind up his affairs and come back to the UK, or they would have deported him. Forcibly if necessary. And then the stories get worse from there.

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That's exactly what I am talking about - supply and demand. You can bring in laws and regulations all you want, all it does is it distorts markets...

Markets need regulating and distorting.

Markets tend to distort over time, IMO. Stability is like balancing a pencil. The thing is who gets to control the distortion and why. Recent experience suggests leaving the market to control itself isn't a very good idea.

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Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:16 am
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Linux_User wrote:
I would argue that having the means to provide for yourself and your family is the very definition of a basic human right.

That's what benefits are for. To support people who are incapable of looking after themselves...

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Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:08 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
Having a job is not a "privilege", I would argue that having the means to provide for yourself and your family is the very definition of a basic human right.

Friend of mine worked for EA in the US for a while. Some of the stories he told me would turn your hair white. They start from the fact that when they terminated his contract (at a week's notice) he had a further week to wind up his affairs and come back to the UK, or they would have deported him. Forcibly if necessary. And then the stories get worse from there.

Even if you are a US citizen you can lose all your health benefits as well, then they have time limited unemployment benefits. After 99 weeks you get nothing. This is the main reason why US unemployment figures have been falling, People have simply stopped being counted as unemployed.

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Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:41 pm
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