I found out recently that there is no legal provision to allow a male spouse paid time off to attend antenatal appointments, e.g. ultrasound scans.

There are government recommendations to allow paid leave or making back the time to attend but in each case it is down to the employer.

I suppose I'm half fortunate in that I have flexi working so there is some scope to fot it appointments but this is still dependant on me making the time up and also at the managers discretion.

I find this situation disgusting though. As a potential father its difficult enough to try to get involved in the pregnancy and this just compounds the situation. Have you been to the midwife and heard the mother to be called by name but that father to be called just Dad? Do I not have a name? Yet at the same time Dads up and down the country are being frowned upon for not doing enough, etc.

After doing a bit of research I found some example cases. One particularly shocking where the father wasn't present at a scan due to not being allowed the time off work. During the scan the mother was told the baby's heart wasn't beating. Can you imagine how that must have felt?

I actually feel quite strongly about this and am going to look into some organisations who may be trying to do something about it. I think I'd like to campaign about this myself and have the system changed. I don't mean to sound naive and wouldn't know where to start even but I find this wrong for so many reasons and want it put right.

Paid leave for antenatal appointments for parents. BOTH parents.

Part of me agrees with you, but...

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, why should employers pay for anyone to have time off just because they're having a family?

I'm childless (partly through choice, partly through other circumstances not worth going into here), so if I was one of your co-workers, I'd be expected to take up the slack while you attended antenatal appointments with your wife. I can't claim paid time off outside my annual leave entitlement, so how's that fair?

Equally, my taxes are used to pay for everyone's children's education and healthcare, whether I want to pay for it or not. I guess I'm asking how much are employers expected to give so their employees can take time out for things that are mostly completely avoidable.

As I say, I'm playing devil's advocate to get some debate moving here. Please don't take this personally.

As the O.P has a flexi-time system at work it's not too bad for him, but I know through experience that a lot of people don't have the option to make up time, ie. Contractors, etc.

Is this the sort of thing you'd go to the government petition site for?

I actually agree in some respects. But putting work to one side and looking at it from a purely personal/human aspect would you not want your husband with you, especially if there were to be some bad news? A system already exists for a woman to have paid leave to attend and where equalities are concerned I'm amazed the same doesnt extend to the male partner.

Not sure about the "mostly completely avoidable" though. I think for the human race to continue we need a few people to 'pop one out' once in a while

Have you got a link by any chance?

I didn't, but having Googled it I do now...

CLICKY

Good luck!

Even unpaid leave would probably satisfy most people...I knew a guy in my last job who couldn't even get that with a couple of weeks notice. So he told them he was going whether they liked it or not and he got a disciplinary for leaving work

I hope that I'm a position to take time off when the time comes.

Thankyou. I'm obviously far too lazy to have done that myself!

I suppose I would. Don't forget, though, it's only in the last twenty years or so it's been important for the dad to take part in the earliest stages of pregnancy. It's not that long ago where it was unusual for the father to attend the birth!

In an ideal world, everyone would be entitled to all this stuff. Sadly, it's not an ideal world.

With the world's population approaching seven billion souls and rising rapidly, we could also question the need for continued population growth. However, who's going to be paying into the system so I can retire on a pension?

It's not easy, I admit.

My workplace will allow reasonable abscence for Paternity stuff but we are also flexi time so that helps alot. It tends to be very good on the benifit side of stuff

Though my personal viewpoint is similar to HK's devils advocate viewpoint. The father is not essential for any antenatal classes etc, the mother is (obvioulsy ). Its a nice benifit to have but why should companies subsidise it?
Why should co-workers be forced to pick the slack up?
Why should those who are not having children subsidise further those who are?

Its a complex issue that is bound to have a nice spread of opinions some very polarised.

I would say that the same arguments apply to smoker's breaks.

It's their choice to smoke but they seems to get almost an extra hour off each day to satisfy their addiction.

I couldn't disagree more if I tried, and here's why...

When my wife was having our youngest, (the older two are my step-kids, and obviously I wasn't around then) She was quite keen that I went to work rather than attending any of the antenatal stuff, as firstly, I was a contractor and she thought we needed the money and also, having had two kids she already knew what was going on.

Did any of you guys know that when babies are born they don't come out a lovely pink colour. If I'd been to the meetings before she was born I might have known that babies sometimes come out a horrid grey colour and look like... well, little dead things

That was proably the longest and worst 10 seconds of my life.

So, back to the point. Should the fathers be involved. Damned right they should!

That's my tuppence worth anyway.

I was lucky that my old employers let me take paid time off for scans & antinatal classes. They also paid me in full for the 2 weeks paternity leave I had.
My new employers let me have "free" time off for doctors, dentists etc and would also apply if we had another kid.
It's the luck of the draw (& I've been lucky working for smaller family type employers).
I still think both parents should get time off and that maternity/paternity pay should be higher.

I think I'm sort of agreeing with most of you. I appreciate why a father might want to attend hospital appointments for scans and also the pre-baby classes etc, J_V makes a valid point abotu the father having a clue about what might happen.

The only thing I'm at a bit of a loss about is why it requires paid leave from work? Go to evening ante-natal classes if you want to attend with your partner, and if your employer isn't flexible enough to allow you to "flexi" during the pregnancy then why can't you use your holiday days? Half a day here and there for the later appointments won't break the bank and you get paid for those anyway.

I'm child-free currently by choice. I am already helping subsidise child tax credits (or family allowance, or whatever it's called now) and helping to pay for every mother to receive free healthcare during her pregnancy, and free prescriptions for a year afterwards, and covering at work while women take 6 months maternity leave and men take 4 weeks paternity leave, and then helping to pay for those children to be educated to the age of 16, and covering for parents who have to take short-notice time off to care for sick children or cover school "duvet" days, while still only having the same number of days of holiday as every other employee. Now you want me to also help pay for you to take paid leave from work to attend classes and hospital appointments with your partner?

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with Dads taking a full and active part in the starting, middle and ending of their kids and I'm fully of the "joint-parenting" persuasion, but I just don't see why you should get extra paid leave in order to do it. If that were to become the case then those of us who can't (or don't want to) have children should be given additional time off as well, call it a reward for not adding to the growing population crisis!?!?

Ok, that last bit was partially devils advocate, but the argument still has merit. I happen to work for a large international company who can afford to pay for "enhanced" paternity cover, and happily allows us a strong control over our work-life balance. Many smaller companies simply can't afford to provide even their female workers with anything above and beyond the statutory allowances, and if they started having to provide extra paid time off for male workers as well would be in real trouble.

Get your partner to book her medical appointments for first thing or last thing in a working day and take half a days holiday for those you want to attend, or, if your employer will allow it, ask for unpaid leave to attend. Ask her Doctor to please try and remember your name, it's a courtesy rather than anything else and unless you attend for every single appointment the Doctor will likely only be able remember the name of the person on her screen, they do see hundreds of people every week.

[OT]


1. Health & Safety law requires me to take regular breaks from my monitor.
2. I work through lunch & work overtime without question and without extra pay.
(he says posting on a forum whilst his computer is otherwise locked up whilst rendering)
3. I am never late because of tube, bus or car because I walk to work.
4. It takes me 20 seconds (I just timed it) to get a glass of water - and don't dally like the T&C drinkers.

Remember not all smokers are alike - so please, do not tar me with your broad brush.

NB: Incidentally, I have 4 ciggarettes during my working day; 11:30, 1pm, 2pm & 4:30pm - each taking on average 5mins to smoke, thus equating to no more than 20mins, maybe 30mins maximum of "break" time - your company doesn't have to let anyone smoke - but if you are reasonable there is no reason why they shouldn't be to.

[/OT]

As for the issue in debate - I'm with Heather - why, if you want to have children, should anyone but yourself or your partner pay the price beyond that they do (via taxes) already. Time off? Yes - perhaps - within reason. Paid? Forget it.

It's like hiring a nanny so you can both can continue to work - bring them up yourself FFS - my M&D juggled me and my sister between them and their 12hr NHS day/night shifts - it can be done - just people don't do it because everything's so readily offered up on a plate.