No one has a clue really. At best, it’s guesswork. The problem is that there is no real way to model such a complex system, nor is there an “undo”. So people try stuff and if it fails, they try again. As I see it is mistake on mistake on mistake has broken the system so much that it needs to be stripped down and restarted. If the system was flawed in the first place, then what hope is there of fixing it properly in the first place?

I speak not of the Euro, which is a small component in the machine, but the overall global economy which has evolved from much smaller systems operating for a smaller number of people and smaller amount of money. The whole system needs rethinking. We have dwindling resources, spiralling debt and we are expecting the system to just keep going. There has to be a ceiling beyond which there will be catastrophic failure. If we haven’t hit it yet, then it is surely fairly close.

There was someone on the BBC News last night saying that growth is not as important as you’d think. Japan had close to 0% growth for over a decade, and nothing bad happened to them. We need to do more than just tinker with a pre-Victorian system. Time to start again.

For the benefit of Koli (who seems to enjoy editing quotes) - I am not an economist. I make no bones about it, however I do try to follow what’s being written and said on the subject. I have my opinions. What I don’t have are solutions. Most people (including you) are in the same boat is I, and we are all quite frankly sick and tired of the captain steering as across the rough waters without any navigational aids.



The photos were “tweaked” slightly to preserve the smirk value.

That's fine, I don't have a problem with that.

What I do have a problem with is when people who don't have a clue about the topic start moaning and criticizing that things are going wrong. If you want to criticize you should at least try to offer a solution (even it is a wrong one). If you can't do that then at least criticize constructively. If you can't criticize constructively it means you know nothing about the topic so you should not enter the discussion at all.

Spotted this on the beeb...

So, don't enter the discussion, unless you can offer either a solution or constructive criticism?


Which one was that then?

That one that suggested that criticizing is not appropriate if you can't offer a solution.
I apologize for not spelling it out for those who are not so sharp. I will try not to overestimate verbal reasoning skills of local forum users in the future.

Don't be such an arse.

I don't know why we don't just get a referendum on being in the EU?

Well actually I do know why and that is because the vast majority would vote to leave.

We joined the EEC re. fair trade not some sort of USE which France and Germany and now trying to create.

Ok, sorry. I take it back.
Do you want to hug it out? Let's hug it out!

We actually could, as of fairly recently. There are now laws in place such that should any treaty require further transferal of sovereignty to the EU, a referendum on the changes is required before they can be entered into English law. I suspect that should that referendum happen and the vote be 'no' to the changes, then the political momentum towards having a referendum on EU membership would be effectively unstoppable - it would be seen as be a vote of no confidence in our membership of the EU.

Of course, that means the argument becomes over what is 'transferal of sovereignty' is. Allowing the ECB to set taxes within the UK (as in the aforementioned Tobin tax) would certainly count as that, as would joining any future europe-wide currency. Other things could be argued about. The devil is, as always, in the details.

Jon

A Conservative MP (can't remember which) was on the radio a couple of days ago being asked that very question. What would it take to trigger that law?

He wriggled around a fair bit and simply would not elaborate.

That’s because either he doesn’t know - or even that the Government doesn’t know. I suspect it’s like when I go clothes shopping. I have no idea what I’m looking for, but I’ll know it when I see it. Governments like rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty. It gives them a certain amount wriggle room.

The other thing to remember is that a referendum is not binding. Yes, it would be foolish to take no heed of it at all, but what happens if the population votes for something utterly idiotic despite the correct course of action being recommended by the government of the time? Would it be right to allow mob rule to take over, or should be entrust a decision to be made by those who we put into power? I would argue that a referendum is pointless. We know that the media will fuel a “get out” response. However, it is likely that that will result in further economic turmoil and deeper recession. We have a party that wants to pull us out of Europe. I would suggest that if you want this result, then vote for it in the next General Election. There’s your referendum right there.

From the BBC
(my emphasis)

sounds about right for a large amount of British people

Moaning and criticising is all I have left. What else can I do? I don't have any power to change any of this mess.

Okay, aside from wishing for a massive meteor to come in and give us better sense of perspective, how about we just write off all the debt? Clean the slate. Forget about trying to repay massive deficits, which seem aimed more at making poor people even more miserable and dejected, just forget all about them. Start over.

It's the one thing I've not heard any of the mainstream politicians come up with. They seem quite content with their lot, so screw the rest of us.

Now, let's see how you edit and twist that one.

David Cameron

n: pej;

1. Pointless little turd

So how does any of this affect the price of turnips?