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Floods are judgment on society, say bishops 
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l3v1ck wrote:
In other news.... Bishop is a moron.


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Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:08 am
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james016 wrote:
l3v1ck wrote:
In other news.... Bishop is a moron.


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*Groan*

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Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:03 pm
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ShockWaffle wrote:
Quality story. We have a "Guardian clicky" that points to the Telegraph, and that's the general standard of accuracy throughout.

If you see past your smug anti-religious prejudices you will notice that there is a journalist using cheap innuendo to sell you lies about two apparently innocent bishops (one is clearly mis-described and is just an environmentalist; the other makes a couple of ambiguous statements that the journo was too eager to interpret according to his story - he should have requested clarification).

Add to that the fact that Rt Rev Graham Dow retired in 2009, and this story is from 2007 and we're really doing the internet proud here today.


I thought it was the Guardian. Oops

As to it being out of date, It happens.

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Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:06 am
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Another thing that happens is arrogant atheists awarding themselves medals for their free thinking super-rationality. But the evidence here suggests that they are incapable of subjecting a source to critical analysis if the headline supports their dogmatic prejudices.


Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:28 am
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That's not atheists, that's journalists in general.

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Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:35 am
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ShockWaffle wrote:
Another thing that happens is arrogant atheists awarding themselves medals for their free thinking super-rationality. But the evidence here suggests that they are incapable of subjecting a source to critical analysis if the headline supports their dogmatic prejudices.


I did read the article before I posted it - and I think the content fits the headline well. The headline makes the simple claim - some bishops said that floods were a judgement on society - and I think we can agree that this is also a reflection of the Flood story where the featured god didn’t like what people were up to, so decided to drown the lot of them. So far, the floods we have experienced have not been mass extinction events, and it could be argued (quite robustly, if you think about what they do for a living) that the bishops are letting their own dogma stand in the way of rational thought.

The article does go on to cite various examples of their claims and examines various recent social developments which fit the bishops’ claims. For example:

Quote:
"In the Bible, institutional power is referred to as 'the beast', which sets itself up to control people and their morals. Our government has been playing the role of God in saying that people are free to act as they want," he [The Rt Rev Graham Dow, Bishop of Carlisle] said, adding that the introduction of recent pro-gay laws highlighted its determination to undermine marriage.


Before this quote, we are reminded that:
Quote:
The bishop, who is a leading evangelical, said that people should heed the stories of the Bible, which described the downfall of the Roman empire as a result of its immorality.

and I think we are aware that the evangelicals are the kind who take the words of the bible very literally, with selected parts of Leviticus being host to a lot of their views. His views on homosexuality should be of no surprise to anyone here.

Other bishops take varying tacks, but all arrive at the same conclusion: there is an angry god out there, he doesn’t like what we are doing, and he’s punishing us. The fact that it’s indiscriminate (i.e. those who follow the Bible are hit as hard as those who don’t) seems to be of little concern to them:
Quote:
He [The Rt Rev Graham Dow, Bishop of Carlisle] expressed his sympathy for those who have been hit by the weather, but said that the problem with "environmental judgment is that it is indiscriminate".


Quote:
"We have a responsibility in this and God is exposing us to the truth of what we have done." [Rt Rev James Jones]


The difficulty here is that a lot of their messages, especially the environmental ones, are ones we have been hearing before. However, this time they are being wrapped up in what I hope is seen in an allegorical way. Maybe they feel that this is what some christians need to hear to get them to see how their actions affect the environment.

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Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:12 am
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The story is clearly misleading. It contains the following untrue claim:
Telegraph wrote:
the bishops argue controversially that the flooding is a result of Western civilisation's decision to ignore biblical teaching.


Yes, one evangelist bishop clearly said the floods are an unequivocal expression of God's wrath.
One definitely did not say anything of the sort, but was included in a story saying multiple bishops did say this.
And the other was a little ambiguous regarding the actual involvement of God at all (but he was not asked to clarify his statement, leaving him open to the prejudiced interpretations of the clumsy) - but he absolutely didn't put it down to biblical morality, he cited environmental responsibility which is not a biblical theme at all.

This is a clear case of taking a lone nutter and roping in innocent bystanders to create a conspiracy charge.

Why the story wasn't run honestly with a headline of "Floods are judgment on society, says bishop" is beyond me.


Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:02 pm
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