How is it cruel?

IMO (and this is one of those perennial arguments to which there is no definitive answer) any primarily physical pursuit which can be competed in is a 'sport'. All it needs is to be something you do with your body (as oppose to your mind/brain) and for there to possibly be a winner even if it can be done for fun. Whether the winner is decided from some in game objective (i.e. goals, runs, baskets, whose first past a line etc) or through an independent judge scoring your skill in the techniques the sport requires, that's all fine.

Cricket is a sport. Diving is a sport. Road cycling is a sport. Skating is a sport. I have to be honest and I say I think dressage just about sneaks into the definition (if anything I'd say it's a sport for the horses more than the people). Chess is not a sport.

Dressage isn't about the natural movement of the animal.
Have a look on Youtube for rollkur and tell me what you think.

Turns out we've won both gold and bronze in the Dressage. That's 50 medals!

Lots of things are not natural. You could say that about how some of the gymnasts are trained in certain countries. I guess you'll be wanting us to give the gold back?

Just because something requires energetic activity etc. does not mean it should be an olympic sport, or even a sport. Ballet for example requires a massive level of personal fitness but no one is going to suggest it be in the Olympics. Exactly the same with rhythmic gymnastics and syncro swimming.

I've had a look and no I don't agree with that. Unfortunately there are lots of people in lots of sports who do not train or act in a decent way.

A gymnast performing has made the conscious decision to exercise themselves and develop themselves to perform.
A horse, left to it's own devices, will not perform dressage. It's coaxed and cajoled into doing to by it's owners. It was an invention used to train horses ready for war, nothing more. It's not to do with fitness or speed, just one animals utter control over another.

If there was an agreed system for objectively scoring it, I'd be happy to see it in the olympics.

Remember too that before WWII, there were 'artistic endeavours' in the Olympics anyway. I believe there is a man still alive in the UK who has an official Olympic gold medal for painting.

Yes but the horse hasn't volunteered.

And indeed, China's system in particular of producing gymnasts is on very shaky moral ground.

See here for how dressage should be done, I'd be willing to accept this version in an Olympics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEbmm4- ... r_embedded

Notice the lack of a bit (cruel medieval horse torture device)

notice the control of the horse without even a bridle. That's true horsemanship.

While training can take things so far, my experience is no amount of training will get an animal to do something it simply doesn't want to do, at least not without levels of physical coercion that simply aren't allowed in the Olympic riding events. Horses can and do refuse to do what their rider tells them to do in show jumping and dressage more than occasionally.


Well, Chinas attitude to individual freedoms is a whole bigger issue.

I hope you take equal issue with any sport where an animal is used - as they all use forms of control and coercion that you would not apply to a fellow human being.

Dressage is probably the least cruel form of horse riding that I can think of. The aim is to control the horse through a series of moves, walks, trots and canters using minimal prompts from the riders. You aren't supposed to use verbal commands - not even making clicks.

As observed elsewhere, if a horse does not want to do something, it won't. You see this a lot in eventing and show jumping. You may see it in dressage, but I'd surmise that a leisurely prance around a quiet arena is less stressful than charging around a field jumping fences and hurdles.

I have mixed feelings about using horses for motive power, entertainment and competition. I've ridden in the last, as well as having a go at driving a horse and cart (which I enjoyed - but I like driving things). A lot of the devices used - bits, especially - are horrific metal things. However, there are bridals which have no bits at all, and they do get used from time to time. It really depends on the temperament of the horse.

And for anyone who is concerned, between events - show jumping, cross country, dressage - the horses are thoroughly checked by by vets to ensure that they in good health. If not, the horse won't be allowed to continue.

Got interrupted - though I have a separate point to make about points in more artistic events.

In my mind, anything that gets awarded points for artistic merit ceases rapidly to be an activity for its own sake and starts to become a sport. This is why I feel that ballroom dancing should be an Olympic Sport.

BTW - no male or mixed synchronised swimming events? What's that about? Should I be outraged and feel that there is discrimination going on?

I'll answer both these posts later.

IIRC I read somewhere there are no events in this games that are only being contested by men but there are three events that are only being contested by women. Synchronised swimming is one but I can't remember the other two, sorry.

I suppose that is discriminatory but there seem to be plenty of events for everyone. There's something in the games everyone could do regardless of sex, body shape or where their ability lies.