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Right-to-die man Tony Nicklinson dead 
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HeatherKay wrote:
Not even when that human is plainly begging to die to relieve their own suffering?

I would honestly still struggle. I wanted to help people, not kill them. Otherwise I'd have been a soldier/mercenary etc.

The most I would do is palliative care. Ensure the patient isn't suffering as the disease progresses and they succumb to it. They are on a downward decline and either it can be a painful, horrible experience, or we can ease their suffering. The issue with Tony Nicklinson is that he wasn't going downhill. He was in status quo (or so I'm led to believe).

Compare this to a similar chap they showed on the news who was in high spirits and had to wishes to die despite suffering from the same condition. What if in the next few weeks/months/years, they found a breakthrough that could have helped him? Would he still feel the same?

TBH I think unless any of us have firsthand experience either as "sufferer" or as carer, we can only conjecture on the subject.

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Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:53 am
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Jesus Christ the last thing I want is to be slowly dying on a hospital bed, fighting for every breath or something. :shock:

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Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:39 pm
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cloaked_wolf wrote:
I can't speak for anyone else but I hold human life above that of other species. I will happily point a shotgun at a horse, dog etc but don't think I could ever do so at a human purely because they're in pain/unwell.

Then I put it to you that you hold the lives of other species above the lives of humans.

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Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:41 pm
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If I didn't value the lives of other humans, I'd be out there wih a shotgun cleaning the streets.

I can't imagine what it'd be like to have locked in syndrome but I'd still rather exist than die. As long as I have capacity, I would want to live.

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Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:33 pm
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That's fair, but that's your choice. The question remains what do we do about people who, when faced with those circumstances, choose the other option? Is their existence of itself more important than their freedom of choice? And if they have that freedom of choice, do they have the right to ask for assistance to implement that choice?

I honestly don't think there's any right answer to this one. It's literally a question of conscience, and one that cannot come to an objectively 'correct' answer. I can certainly see that any person - be they medically trained or not - should have the absolute right to refuse to be involved in an assisted suicide, but as to whether someone who is willing to do so should be able to be involved? That's not a question I'm qualified to answer and I'm struggling to think of anyone I would consider qualified.


Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:10 pm
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You should have seen my Dad before he died. He'd gone from a 6ft2 18 stone man to a skeleton who could barely speak. If he had asked me any any time to help end it I would've done in a heart beat.

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Caz is correct though


Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:26 pm
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Linux_User wrote:
Jesus Christ the last thing I want is to be slowly dying on a hospital bed, fighting for every breath or something. :shock:

Totally agree.

I wouldn't want to put a doctor in the situation of being forced to help me either, our medical friend would obviously be very uncomfortable with that situation and I also respect that, but for crying out loud we have to be able to agree a sensible approach to this, the Swiss have.

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Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:32 pm
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oceanicitl wrote:
If he had asked me any any time to help end it I would've done in a heart beat.

Good on you.
I'd hope everyone in my family would do the same for me.

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Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:47 pm
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HeatherKay wrote:
I can understand the problem if the sufferer is incapable of making that decision, but when someone has explained in their own words that they want assistance to help them die with some dignity surely we should be able to help...

... As a civilised society, we should allow those who wish to die the right to assistance. It's the humane thing to do.

The thing is I agree - we should be able to provide help. Some of the states we allow people to get into are beyond belief. However it's all well and good saying "we should be able" or "we should allow". If one leaves aside the philosophical issues, there are two huge sticking points -

  1. finding an acceptable legal framework that would allow assisted suicide to happen whilst protecting the vulnerable
  2. finding a workable means by which a suicide can be assisted

The first is a legal minefield - where are the lines? For instance, how does the law practically tell the difference between assisted suicide and manslaughter? How does the law adequately prevent great Aunty Alice from being bumped off for her cash? How does the law tell the difference between a life that needs to be ended and a life that needs to be continued?

And the second is even worse - the questions of practicality are breaktaking. Who decides? By what criteria do they decide? Do the family get a say? What about a patient who is sentient, conscious and has expressed a previous wish but is now non-communicative? Who does "the deed"? Do we allow family members to assist? Do we ask doctors to do it? Would doctors be willing to do it? If not doctors then whom? Who watches the watchmen? Where does this happen? Only in hospital or do we allow them to go home?

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Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:48 pm
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All good points/questions. That's why we (or more specifically the politicians) need to have a good long debate about it.
It's the fact they won't even talk about it that annoys me most.

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Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:53 pm
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l3v1ck wrote:
All good points/questions. That's why we (or more specifically the politicians) need to have a good long debate about it.
It's the fact they won't even talk about it that annoys me most.

It was debated on the floor of the HoC for several hours on 27th March 2012

Hansard - (see columns 1363-1440)

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Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:12 pm
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a debate is not needed, we just have to look at others who have this in place and improve on it ...

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Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:54 pm
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MrStevenRogers wrote:
a debate is not needed, we just have to look at others who have this in place and improve on it ...

There is a range of opinions.

Therefore we need to debate it.

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Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:02 pm
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rustybucket wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
a debate is not needed, we just have to look at others who have this in place and improve on it ...

There is a range of opinions.

Therefore we need to debate it.


no
others have it in place
we only need to look, see and adjust ...

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Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:04 pm
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MrStevenRogers wrote:
rustybucket wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
a debate is not needed, we just have to look at others who have this in place and improve on it ...

There is a range of opinions.

Therefore we need to debate it.


no
others have it in place
we only need to look, see and adjust ...

No.

We do not all agree about what we want.

Therefore we have to have a debate about what we want before we can decide which country to emulate and how to alter their process.

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Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:08 pm
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