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"You have a right to kill yourself"
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pcernie
Legend
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:30 pm Posts: 45931 Location: Belfast
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 |  |  |  | Quote: There would be "an almighty parliamentary row" if laws on assisted suicide were re-examined, Conservative MP Mark Pritchard has said.
The former secretary of the 1922 committee of backbenchers said Tory MPs would "not accept reform lying down".
His comments come after new health ministers Anna Soubry and Norman Lamb suggested there was a case for reassessing legislation.
The British Medical Association (BMA) said it opposed any change to the law.
Earlier on Saturday, newly-promoted health minister Anna Soubry told the Times it was "ridiculous and appalling" that Britons had to "go abroad to end their life".
Ms Soubry, Conservative MP for Broxtowe, said those seeking help to die should be allowed to obtain assistance in the UK.
She rejected euthanasia, but said "you have a right to kill yourself".
Her Liberal Democrat colleague Mr Lamb added that he also believed there was a "strong case" for the law to be reconsidered.
'Slippery slope'
However, Mr Pritchard responded by saying that attempts to change the law would be met with fierce opposition and would cause "an almighty parliamentary row".
"Parliament writes the laws of the land not the CPS [Crown Prosecution Service] or individual ministers," he said.
"Any new right-to-die legislation will be rigorously fought by MPs from across the House.
"This is a slippery slope, which incrementally and over time, will reduce the 'right to life'."
BMA president Baroness Hollins also criticised moves to re-open the debate, and made it clear the medical profession did "not support a change in the law".
Speaking to Sky News, she said: "To change the law would be to change the boundary between life and death altogether. That's a journey I just don't want us to even start out on in this country."
The Department of Health said the views expressed by Ms Soubry were her own, and the Ministry of Justice said there were no plans for the government to change the law.
It was a matter for Parliament to decide, the justice ministry added.
Campaign group Dignity in Dying said it was currently consulting - along with the all-party parliamentary group on choice at the end of life - on a proposed draft bill.
In January, the Commission on Assisted Dying - led by Lord Falconer and set up and funded by campaigners who want to see a change in the law -said there was a "strong case" for allowing assisted suicide for people who are terminally ill in England and Wales.
But the report had a mixed response, with critics calling it biased.
Paul Tully, of campaign group SPUC Pro-Life, warned that if assisted dying was legalised people with disabilities would be faced with "the sickening prospect that if they struggle with suicidal feelings they will be given help to die instead of care and support".
"Such a move would allegedly save huge amounts of public funds in the costs of caring for disabled, elderly and supposedly unproductive people," he added.
"Disabled people must speak up now before the minister starts trying to legislate against their equal right to exist."
The debate over assisted suicide has resurfaced after Tony Nicklinson, a man with locked-in syndrome, died a week after losing a legal bid to end his life.
Assisted suicide currently carries a sentence of up to 14 years' imprisonment.
The law currently draws a crucial distinction between doctors deciding not to provide or continue treatment, which might prolong life, and acting to end a life, by for example administering lethal drugs.
Following the decision by High Court judges with regards to Mr Nicklinson, the BMA had said the court made "the right decision".
"The BMA is opposed to the legalisation of assisted dying and we are not lobbying for any change in the law in the UK," it said.
Mr Nicklinson's wife, Jane, meanwhile, has said she will appeal - as his widow and carer - against the High Court decision on his behalf because "nobody should have to suffer like Tony did".
Mrs Nicklinson, from Melksham, Wiltshire, said: "It is too late for Tony but I hope that we can now help those who find themselves in a similar position." |  |  |  |  |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19530676Click the link for recent cases... I'm of the opinion that we need a change or amendment of current law so that there's no ambiguity; as it stands, it's all swept under the carpet or a trip abroad regarding circumstances you wouldn't see an animal suffer.
_________________Plain English advice on everything money, purchase and service related:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/
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Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:08 pm |
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cloaked_wolf
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:46 pm Posts: 10022
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Biggest worry is attempted suicide based on [LIFTED] circumstances, feeling down/depressed etc.
There would need to be clear laws which would address the problems I've posted elsewhere.
_________________ He fights for the users.
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Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:22 pm |
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adidan
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:43 pm Posts: 5048
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Have countries where assisted suicide is currently legal found to have the problems that concern you? I haven't read into it much to be honest but I do agree that you should have the right to end your life when you see fit and get help in doing so if needs be. It's not illegal to commit suicide and I don't believe that lacking the physical ability to do it yourself should hinder that right..
_________________ Fogmeister I ventured into Solitude but didn't really do much. jonbwfc I was behind her in a queue today - but I wouldn't describe it as 'bushy'.
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Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:51 pm |
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cloaked_wolf
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:46 pm Posts: 10022
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Not legal? How the fudge do you prosecute someone for committing suicide?
More to the point, what's stopping me or any other number of doctors from doing what Shipman did?
_________________ He fights for the users.
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Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:10 pm |
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bobbdobbs
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:10 pm Posts: 5490 Location: just behind you!
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attempting suicide use to be a criminal act until the suicide act 1961
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Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:29 pm |
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bobbdobbs
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:10 pm Posts: 5490 Location: just behind you!
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How do we know your not? We only have your say so and you haven't be arrested. 
_________________Finally joined Flickr
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Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:31 pm |
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jonbwfc
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Posts: 17040
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Making (or keeping) laws based on events which may only happen once in the lifetime of the people making them isn't the way to get to a fair and just system. Jon
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Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:49 pm |
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adidan
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:43 pm Posts: 5048
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Eh? Who said it wasn't legal? It's not illegal to attempt to commit suicide in the UK either (IIRC that is illegal in some States in the US). Confused.  That's the point, Shipman did it under the current regulations. I seriously don't believe there are a host of killer Doctors just waiting for the regulations to change. Besides, there will be checks, second opinions and, most importantly, it will be the decision of the individual not the Doctor. IMO it should be an option requested rather than being offered.
_________________ Fogmeister I ventured into Solitude but didn't really do much. jonbwfc I was behind her in a queue today - but I wouldn't describe it as 'bushy'.
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Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:20 am |
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oceanicitl
Official forum cat lady
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:04 am Posts: 11039 Location: London
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I watched Pratchet's Choosing to Die last night. It wasn't the easiest thing to watch but Pratchet is such a compasionate soul I'm glad I did. 28% of people that go to Dignitas are not ill. His reaction to this was well who's life is it anyway? There was also a lot of records of people that have contacted Dignitas but never done anything else about it. They said that knowing it's there gives them the strength to go on. Also the people choosing to die drink the poison themselves and they are given lots of chances to change their mind. The Doctor said she would never lethally inject a person. They are simply giving people that chance to die peacefully and with dignity. I found it a fascinating program & I hope that in the future we are able to have the choice in this country too. EDIT the Guardian article about Dignitas if anyone is interested Inside the Dignitas House
_________________Still the official cheeky one 
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Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:02 am |
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Zippy
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:20 pm Posts: 3838 Location: Here Abouts
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On your recommendation Caz, I watched the programme last night. It was an incredible programme and answered a lot of questions I had, made me a bit emotional, but mostly it just made me really angry that we don't get to choose. We don't even get to debate the subject of being allowed to choose.
A program like Dignitas isn't the type of thing you approach lightly on a whim, it costs a lot (and almost all of the costs go toward fighting legal battles and paying for the red tape surrounding the operation) you can't just turn up and "get killed" as some have said. You have to apply, be evaluated and then you are repeatedly questioned about whether you want to go ahead with it or not.
The thing I didn't know, was that the person has to take the poison (they call it a medicament) themselves. It's mixed for them by their volunteer host, but they have to pick it up from the table and drink it themselves, only when they are ready and when they have been asked a number more times whether they are sure they want to do this. I think this is an amazing thing.
I have a very mild case of Parkinsons, at the moment it only shows itself in tremors and occasional rigidity issues, but it will develop as I age (or so I'm told) into the full blown disease. I don't want to live that life. I want to be able to choose the manner and time of my death, I don't want hospice care and I don't want Red to put his own life aside to care for me.
That's my choice, it may not be everyone's choice, it's not right or wrong, but it's mine and I should be allowed to make it.
_________________The Official "Saucy Minx"  This above all: To Thine Own Self Be True "Red sky at night, Shepherds Delight"..Which is a bit like Shepherds Pie, but with whipped topping instead of mashed potato.
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Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:43 am |
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oceanicitl
Official forum cat lady
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:04 am Posts: 11039 Location: London
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I'm glad you watched it. I think everyone should as a lot of people will have preconceptions about what happens. Death is part of life after all and I feel passionately that we should be able to choose a dignified end. Sorry to hear about your Parkinsons Amy. Make the most of what you can do now. I know you have a full life so enjoy it and be happy 
_________________Still the official cheeky one 
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Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:48 am |
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Zippy
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:20 pm Posts: 3838 Location: Here Abouts
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It's fine, it hasn't got any worse for many years, the shakes started when I was about 15 and I'm just sort of carrying on as if it wasn't there. Denial is not just a river in Egypt 
_________________The Official "Saucy Minx"  This above all: To Thine Own Self Be True "Red sky at night, Shepherds Delight"..Which is a bit like Shepherds Pie, but with whipped topping instead of mashed potato.
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Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:59 am |
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jonlumb
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:44 pm Posts: 4141 Location: Exeter
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Here's something I don't get, and perhaps someone better informed can enlighten me on this.
At the tale end of the Pratchett program you see Peter Smedley taking the various drugs required to end his life. Right at the end, whatever it is that the drug does causes him a reasonably significant amount of distress (although thankfully this was brief). I recall from watching a program Michael Portillo did on the death penalty some while back where the fact that putting someone in at atmosphere of (I think) pure nitrogen caused them to die due to lack of oxygen, but that the effect of the nitrogen was such that they were actually in a state of euphoria. Why do they use a method that induces such distress when such an alternative is possible?
_________________ "The woman is a riddle inside a mystery wrapped in an enigma I've had sex with."
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Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:07 am |
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oceanicitl
Official forum cat lady
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:04 am Posts: 11039 Location: London
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The first thing that comes to mind is the person would have to be in a room in isolation. The way Dignitas does it enables the person to be in physicial contact with loved ones which I believe is really important when you die.
_________________Still the official cheeky one 
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Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:31 am |
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John_Vella
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:55 am Posts: 7935 Location: Manchester.
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No, it's not, and if you believe it is I think you're probably "in Seine". Sorry, that was a very "bratty-esque" pun. I'll try not to do it again 
_________________John Vella BSc (Hons), PGCE - Still the official forum prankster and crude remarker  Sorry  I'll behave now. Promise 
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Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:38 pm |
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