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no-pay placements judged unlawful 
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Poundland ruling: Back-to-work schemes in disarray as no-pay placements judged unlawful

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The Government is hastily revising its back-to-work schemes after a major Appeal Court ruling today.

Three judges ruled that the regulations under which most of the schemes were created are unlawful - and quashed them.

The Government expressed “disappointment and surprise” at the decision and said it now intends to push through new regulations to ensure future schemes are lawfully based. Moves to appeal to the Supreme Court against the ruling are also under consideration.

The court ruled that the Government had acted unlawfully in requiring university graduate Cait Reilly to work for free at a Poundland discount store under a flagship back-to-work scheme.

Miss Reilly, 24, from Birmingham, and 40-year-old unemployed HGV driver Jamieson Wilson, from Nottingham, both succeeded in their claims that the unpaid schemes they were required to participate in were legally flawed.

Their solicitors said later that the ruling means “all those people who have been sanctioned by having their jobseeker's allowance withdrawn for non-compliance with the back-to-work schemes affected will be entitled to reclaim their benefits”.

Public Interest Lawyers said: “The result is that over the past two years the Government has unlawfully required tens of thousands of unemployed people to work without pay and unlawfully stripped thousands more of their subsistence benefits.”

Employment minister Mark Hoban said he was disappointed and surprised at the court's decision on the regulations.

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Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:31 pm
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The job centre tried something similar with me. They didn't threaten my Job Seeker's Allowance, but they got around a dozen of we freshly unemployed in a room and really tried the hard sell - "offer to sign up to work for free for two months, to show the companies your commitment".

I asked them what safeguards were in place, to prevent shady companies from abusing the system to get a steady stream of slave labour, and they best they could manage was that firms caught abusing the system would be taken off the approval list; in other words, none whatsoever. At that point half of us got up and excused ourselves. I did get a quizzical phone call the next day from my "case worker", indirectly asking why I blew it off. I just said, concerns of being taken for a ride aside, I didn't see why they were pushing this on new claimants when the Chav baby factories were lining up in their droves to sign for their regular Giros.

Shortly afterwards I found work, so it didn't go any further for me, but it is easy to believe that they would be willing to threaten benefits to force people down that path.

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Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:53 pm
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I totally get the idea behind what they were trying to do, but my word did the monumentally [LIFTED] up the implementation. If instead of going for corporates they'd tried to fit people in with charities then all of these issues could have been avoided.

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Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:31 pm
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The problem is that for many people who get jobs they will still need benefits to cope financially. So for some the prospect of work is not sufficiently better than doing nothing and signing on. Only problem is that government policy is to cram down wages, to make us "competitive" and slash benefits as well. The bosses are facing none of the pressures that the majority face.

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Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:18 pm
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jonlumb wrote:
I totally get the idea behind what they were trying to do, but my word did the monumentally [LIFTED] up the implementation. If instead of going for corporates they'd tried to fit people in with charities then all of these issues could have been avoided.

That's missing the point though, isn't it?

The theory behind it is to give people work experience, yes, but mainly to sell themselves as a viable employee to firms; it's not designed to be community service in exchange for benefits payment. I don't imagine many charities are hiring in the current climate, so they'd be a poor choice.

The whole idea is flawed - there are companies out there probably willing to to sign up someone on a two month contract, making tea or doing the filing. Then start again in two months, content in the knowledge they are offering work experience and getting free labour, but never actually advertising the position that these six people will fill over a 12 month period; so they're actually reducing the job pool.

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Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:59 pm
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Spreadie wrote:
jonlumb wrote:
I totally get the idea behind what they were trying to do, but my word did the monumentally [LIFTED] up the implementation. If instead of going for corporates they'd tried to fit people in with charities then all of these issues could have been avoided.

That's missing the point though, isn't it?

The theory behind it is to give people work experience, yes, but mainly to sell themselves as a viable employee to firms; it's not designed to be community service in exchange for benefits payment. I don't imagine many charities are hiring in the current climate, so they'd be a poor choice.

The whole idea is flawed - there are companies out there probably willing to to sign up someone on a two month contract, making tea or doing the filing. Then start again in two months, content in the knowledge they are offering work experience and getting free labour, but never actually advertising the position that these six people will fill over a 12 month period; so they're actually reducing the job pool.

It also undermines the job security of any paid staff.

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Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:29 pm
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jonlumb wrote:
I totally get the idea behind what they were trying to do, but my word did the monumentally [LIFTED] up the implementation. If instead of going for corporates they'd tried to fit people in with charities then all of these issues could have been avoided.

It might be beneficial for someone with no previous work experience or no skills and qualifications, but pushing this onto qualified people - be they graduates, HGV drivers or people with clerical experience, is absolutely [LIFTED] ridiculous. Who needs "work experience" in Tesco for £71 a week when they have 10 years' experience as an administrator or some such?

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Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:35 pm
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Linux_User wrote:
jonlumb wrote:
I totally get the idea behind what they were trying to do, but my word did the monumentally [LIFTED] up the implementation. If instead of going for corporates they'd tried to fit people in with charities then all of these issues could have been avoided.

It might be beneficial for someone with no previous work experience or no skills and qualifications, but pushing this onto qualified people - be they graduates, HGV drivers or people with clerical experience, is absolutely [LIFTED] ridiculous. Who needs "work experience" in Tesco for £71 a week when they have 10 years' experience as an administrator or some such?

For someone with no work experience it might be justified but for someone who has worked it is a waste of time for them. What they might need is retraining for any new industries. For a graduate who might have no experience it might be relevant for a one off opportunity. Though the fact that there is a lack of jobs is the real reason that they are unemployed not unwillingness to work. If you have studied and earned a degree and a pile of debt the last thing that you want to do is sit on the dole. The problem is that the government want to tarnish everyone out of work as skivers regardless of circumstances as a way of justifying the cuts program which are significantly hitting the working poor.

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Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:57 pm
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no-pay placements judged unlawful


good, if they want people to work then they pay them the going rate while working/training ...

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Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:46 pm
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MrStevenRogers wrote:
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no-pay placements judged unlawful


good, if they want people to work then they pay them the going rate while working/training ...

It is not as if it is not hard to sack anyone. They have up to two years to decide whether the person is suitable.

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Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:48 pm
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Amnesia10 wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
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no-pay placements judged unlawful


good, if they want people to work then they pay them the going rate while working/training ...

It is not as if it is not hard to sack anyone. They have up to two years to decide whether the person is suitable.

Plus the Job Centre has saved them a fortune in advertising and agency fees. You would have thought this was a win-win situation all round, but clearly not. If this was Victorian times, we'd be moaning about the workhouse.

Mind you, in the old days, the employment exchange (which evolved into the Job Centre via the Unemployment Benefit Office) would carry jobs and place you. If not, you'd get paid Compensation (which was generally equivalent your last job's wages).

And that, dear reader, is why Compo out of Last of the Summer Wine was called Compo. He was always given Compensation.

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Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:11 am
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paulzolo wrote:
Plus the Job Centre has saved them a fortune in advertising and agency fees. You would have thought this was a win-win situation all round, but clearly not. If this was Victorian times, we'd be moaning about the workhouse.

The workhouses were closed for a reason. This just the modern equivalent.

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Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:50 am
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