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MacDonalds and the Minimum Wage 
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(US Admittedly, but I suspect the point holds in the UK, especially with the recent 'Zero hour contract' controversy).

MacDonalds, after criticism of how much it pays it's staff, decided to publish a budget table of how much someone would expect to earn in one of their non-management roles and how they would be able to budget that wage. Unfortunately, they got a few details slightly wrong

Fundamental conclusion : In the US, even working two, full time, minimum wage jobs (i.e. working over 70 hours a week) it is pretty much impossible to have something approaching a civilised standard of living.


Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:27 pm
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already happening in the UK ...

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Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:44 pm
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MrStevenRogers wrote:
already happening in the UK ...

In the US it is approaching 40% of the working population that are on minimum wage. In some US stores like Walmart make 40% of their sales from the food stamp programs.

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Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:57 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
(US Admittedly, but I suspect the point holds in the UK, especially with the recent 'Zero hour contract' controversy).

MacDonalds, after criticism of how much it pays it's staff, decided to publish a budget table of how much someone would expect to earn in one of their non-management roles and how they would be able to budget that wage. Unfortunately, they got a few details slightly wrong

Fundamental conclusion : In the US, even working two, full time, minimum wage jobs (i.e. working over 70 hours a week) it is pretty much impossible to have something approaching a civilised standard of living.

The problem is the minimum wage has not changed in about 20 years in the US

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Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:54 am
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hifidelity2 wrote:
The problem is the minimum wage has not changed in about 20 years in the US

And the minimum wage for restaurant waiting staff is only something like $2.87 an hour. They only survive because of tips.

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Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:04 am
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The minimum wage is obviously much higher in America than over here...

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Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:53 pm
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big_D wrote:
The minimum wage is obviously much higher in America than over here...

True, but then you also have a guaranteed minimum numbers of weekly hours in a contract. They don't.


Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:10 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
big_D wrote:
The minimum wage is obviously much higher in America than over here...

True, but then you also have a guaranteed minimum numbers of weekly hours in a contract. They don't.

He's in Germany, they don't have a minimum wage.


Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:55 pm
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ShockWaffle wrote:
jonbwfc wrote:
big_D wrote:
The minimum wage is obviously much higher in America than over here...

True, but then you also have a guaranteed minimum numbers of weekly hours in a contract. They don't.

He's in Germany, they don't have a minimum wage.

Not as in a single stated figure, no. However, wikipedia states

Quote:
However, the law states that paying a worker an "immoral wage" is illegal. There is no general consensus what constitutes "immoral" payment. One judge at a court in Krefeld, Germany, ruled that a cashier at a supermarket has to earn the equivalent of approximately 7USD per hour. The federal courts in Germany ruled that any wage lower than 75% of the average wage or salary for a specific occupation constitutes illegal payment.


So unless wages over the entire country are systematically depressed for a particular occupation, you're going to find yourself paying something approaching the average unless you want to get prosecuted. This, combined with the ruling over minimum guaranteed working hours, means that outside very specific circumstances there's a de-facto minimum weekly wage even if there is no legally specified minimum hourly wage (which, as we've seen, is an utterly useless measure in the face of zero hour contracts anyway).

I also suspect any company found guilty of 'paying an immoral wage' in Germany would attract significantly more opprobrium than any UK company has so far for zero hour contracts.


Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:32 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
Not as in a single stated figure, no. However, wikipedia states

Quote:
However, the law states that paying a worker an "immoral wage" is illegal. There is no general consensus what constitutes "immoral" payment. One judge at a court in Krefeld, Germany, ruled that a cashier at a supermarket has to earn the equivalent of approximately 7USD per hour. The federal courts in Germany ruled that any wage lower than 75% of the average wage or salary for a specific occupation constitutes illegal payment.


So unless wages over the entire country are systematically depressed for a particular occupation, you're going to find yourself paying something approaching the average unless you want to get prosecuted. This, combined with the ruling over minimum guaranteed working hours, means that outside very specific circumstances there's a de-facto minimum weekly wage even if there is no legally specified minimum hourly wage (which, as we've seen, is an utterly useless measure in the face of zero hour contracts anyway).

I also suspect any company found guilty of 'paying an immoral wage' in Germany would attract significantly more opprobrium than any UK company has so far for zero hour contracts.

That 75% figure also guarantees that you are earning enough to be above the poverty line as long as you can work a full week.

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Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:58 am
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