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Hackney woman told to remove burka by crown court judge 
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rustybucket wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
in a court of law (British Law) any one (everyone) has the right to face there accuser and the accuser has the right to face that person(s)

facing is the key
you maybe, by the court, asked 'is this the person(s) you identify'

bit hard with a covering blocking direct face to face identification ...

A straw man if ever I saw one.

A female officer of the court takes a photograph of the accused. The witness is then asked to confirm that the person in the photograph is the person they accuse. There is no necessity for the veil to be lifted in the circumstance you state.

MrStevenRogers wrote:
ps. a face veil (burqa) is worn by individual choice not enforced by faith or law ...


All beliefs are worn by individual choice, whether they be veils or otherwise.

For someone from her culture, forcing her to take her veil off is as offensive to her as forcing her to remove all of her clothes.


in a court of law a person has to be able to identify the accused in the court when asked or directed by the court
anything else other then that direct contact and identification in a court of law is considered heresy
are you suggesting we change the law ? ...

straw man i maybe but at least im not rusty ...

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Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:25 pm
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rustybucket wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
in a court of law (British Law) any one (everyone) has the right to face there accuser and the accuser has the right to face that person(s)

facing is the key
you maybe, by the court, asked 'is this the person(s) you identify'

bit hard with a covering blocking direct face to face identification ...

A straw man if ever I saw one.

A female officer of the court takes a photograph of the accused. The witness is then asked to confirm that the person in the photograph is the person they accuse. There is no necessity for the veil to be lifted in the circumstance you state.

MrStevenRogers wrote:
ps. a face veil (burqa) is worn by individual choice not enforced by faith or law ...


All beliefs are worn by individual choice, whether they be veils or otherwise.

For someone from her culture, forcing her to take her veil off is as offensive to her as forcing her to remove all of her clothes.


this person is in a court of law they must abide by the court, offensive or otherwise.
cant do the time don’t commit the (alleged) crime and i wonder was this person/individual wearing a veil (burqa) at the time of the alleged offence? ...

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Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:30 pm
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rustybucket wrote:
For someone from her culture, forcing her to take her veil off is as offensive to her as forcing her to remove all of her clothes.

If she is convicted she will have to go through that when she is strip searched and given her prison clothing.

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Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:57 pm
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MrStevenRogers wrote:
in a court of law a person has to be able to identify the accused in the court when asked or directed by the court
anything else other then that direct contact and identification in a court of law is considered heresy
are you suggesting we change the law ? ...

What law is this?

Show me the law that states that the face of the defendant has to be visible at all times in the courtroom.

MrStevenRogers wrote:
rustybucket wrote:
For someone from her culture, forcing her to take her veil off is as offensive to her as forcing her to remove all of her clothes.


this person is in a court of law they must abide by the court, offensive or otherwise.
cant do the time don’t commit the (alleged) crime ...

Firstly, not true - she must abide by the law. She does not have to abide by the court if what the court asks is not lawful. The court has very limited power to compel a defendant to do anything.

The judge, no matter how large a penis I think he is, has at least had the sense to stall court proceedings while the legality of her refusal is debated.

Secondly, she isn't there because she has committed a crime - she's there because she is accused of one. Indeed, she has not yet been allowed to enter a plea. Your argument seems to boil down to 'no smoke without fire' - that she wouldn't be there if she weren't guilty and can be unnecessarily asked to do things she finds nasty on the whim of some prat in a wig.

The principle of open justice - such that it is - is supposed to prevent abuse of power by the judiciary and executive - it is not there to allow judges to make political points.

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Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:58 pm
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Amnesia10 wrote:
rustybucket wrote:
For someone from her culture, forcing her to take her veil off is as offensive to her as forcing her to remove all of her clothes.

If she is convicted she will have to go through that when she is strip searched and given her prison clothing.

She hasn't been convicted; she hasn't even entered a plea yet.

Even if she were to be convicted and strip-searched, there wouldn't be men in the room - which was rather my point.

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Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:00 pm
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rustybucket wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
in a court of law a person has to be able to identify the accused in the court when asked or directed by the court
anything else other then that direct contact and identification in a court of law is considered heresy
are you suggesting we change the law ? ...

What law is this?

Show me the law that states that the face of the defendant has to be visible at all times in the courtroom.

MrStevenRogers wrote:
rustybucket wrote:
For someone from her culture, forcing her to take her veil off is as offensive to her as forcing her to remove all of her clothes.


this person is in a court of law they must abide by the court, offensive or otherwise.
cant do the time don’t commit the (alleged) crime ...

Firstly, not true - she must abide by the law. She does not have to abide by the court if what the court asks is not lawful. The court has very limited power to compel a defendant to do anything.

The judge, no matter how large a penis I think he is, has at least had the sense to stall court proceedings while the legality of her refusal is debated.

Secondly, she isn't there because she has committed a crime - she's there because she is accused of one. Indeed, she has not yet been allowed to enter a plea. Your argument seems to boil down to 'no smoke without fire' - that she wouldn't be there if she weren't guilty and can be unnecessarily asked to do things she finds nasty on the whim of some prat in a wig.

The principle of open justice - such that it is - is supposed to prevent abuse of power by the judiciary and executive - it is not there to allow judges to make political points.


British law requires that you are able to identify the accused in any British court of law, when required/requested by the court judge the prosecution or defence solicitors at any time within a court case/hearing

please inform me how they can have 'face to face' identification in a open/public court when wearing a burqa, unless you wish to change the law relating to equal rights and heresy

also i repeat was this person wearing a 'burqa' at the time the alleged offence took place ? ...

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Last edited by MrStevenRogers on Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:13 pm
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MrStevenRogers wrote:
British law requires that you are able to identify the accused in any British court of law, when required/requested by the court judge the prosecution or defence solicitors at any time within a court case/hearing

You made that up didn't you?


Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:55 pm
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ShockWaffle wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
British law requires that you are able to identify the accused in any British court of law, when required/requested by the court judge the prosecution or defence solicitors at any time within a court case/hearing

You made that up didn't you?


nope ...

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Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ...
HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...


Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:29 pm
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I don't believe for a second that UK law has some silly rule about pointing at people and they have to have their face out so you can say "is this the lady who...?". That [LIFTED] is for TV.


Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:17 pm
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