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Iran warns west against military intervention in Syria 
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That wouldn't surprise me either .

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:57 pm
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big_D wrote:
Over here the news is reporting that the rebels might be responsible and Assad wants to deliver proof next week.


If it is proved that chemical attacks were carried out by the rebels then what then? Do we side with Assad and punish the rebels?

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:59 pm
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veato wrote:
big_D wrote:
Over here the news is reporting that the rebels might be responsible and Assad wants to deliver proof next week.


If it is proved that chemical attacks were carried out by the rebels then what then? Do we side with Assad and punish the rebels?

That would be embarrassing. Though better to wait till evidence is clear.

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:26 pm
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To be scrupulously fair, I don't think Cameron deserves any fall out over this. He did exactly the right thing - he recalled parliament, he put his plan before them and said 'there you go, it's your job to decide if we do that or not'. And they said 'actually, we don't think that's a good idea, so no' and he said 'fair enough, we won't then'.

That is exactly how our democracy is supposed to work. In following this path Cameron has shown due respect both to the government (in the big sense, not in the 'current electoral winners' sense), to parliament and to the British people. Which is a darned sight more than that arsehole Blair ever did.

Should be bomb either side? Not as it stands no, we might as well just pick a side out of a hat and bomb them. We may never have enough evidence to be 100% sure but we have to at least wait for the inspector's report - if they say (for example) that the agent used was one that Assad wasn't known to have, what then? Assad is already a war criminal whether the gassing was his idea or not. The idea we could somehow 'punish' a man who patently doesn't give a crap about anyone outside his immediate inner circle by bombing infrastructure in a country that's already wrecked escapes me. If you want to send a message, kill Assad. It's that simple. Find him and take him out. Tell the world 'If you do this, we will find you and we will kill you'. That would send a message people would pay attention to. Bombing some factory in the middle of the desert that's probably been abandoned for months? Who gives a damn?


Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:09 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
Bombing some factory in the middle of the desert that's probably been abandoned for months? Who gives a damn?

The weapons manufacturers would. They need to send a message to abandoned factories everywhere that governments will waste vast sums of money to blow up empty buildings. The problem is that the case for who was responsible was not clear. It might still change.

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:33 pm
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For every missile/bomb used, the USA would buy another. That's got to be good for business given how trigger happy the yanks are.

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:00 pm
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David Cameron must rebuild his broken party, say ministers

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... haul-syria

We really need to get over this love affair with America. I mean heaven forbid you'd have a mind of your own...

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:04 pm
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There's nothing wrong with agreeing with Americans when they are right. And after spending months urging the international political community to take collective action, it would be absurd not to ask parliament for permission to join in.


Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:07 pm
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ShockWaffle wrote:
There's nothing wrong with agreeing with Americans when they are right. And after spending months urging the international political community to take collective action, it would be absurd not to ask parliament for permission to join in.


I just mean things like

Quote:
One minister said: "When Barack Obama telephoned the prime minister to say he wanted to take action on Syria, why did nobody ask: are we sure we can win a vote in the House of Commons? The basic mechanisms don't really seem to be working very well."

Quote:
Some senior Tories are urging the prime minister to mount an aggressive campaign against Ed Miliband for diminishing Britain's standing in the world. The prime minister is understood to see the need for a debate but plans to limit himself to a few newspaper articles in the coming weeks.

Cameron was offered some comfort when Barack Obama reassured him in a telephone call that he still remained committed to the Anglo-American special relationship. But the harsh world of Washington politics soon intervened. Within an hour, the US secretary of state, John Kerry, delivered a statement on Syria in which he praised the US's oldest ally, France, with no mention of Britain.


Do other countries seriously worry about their 'standing in the world' (how would you even quantify that, trade? Tearful phone conversations?)? Or is it just us? And since it's clear to everyone we're just America's bitch, why the hell are we worrying about the international standing of a country the size of ours anyway? I've just never been certain what the 'special relationship' actually means at our end :?

As far as I can tell, China, Russia and whoever else will all still think we're a pack of dicks but carry on trading with us cos the alternative sucks.

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:26 pm
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pcernie wrote:
David Cameron must rebuild his broken party, say ministers

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... haul-syria

We really need to get over this love affair with America. I mean heaven forbid you'd have a mind of your own...

Clearly 13 years was not long enough to fix the party. :lol:

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:29 pm
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Syria debate: Michael Gove brands Tory and Lib Dem rebels a disgrace

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ace-rebels

:lol:

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:30 pm
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Considering that we are not going to get involved with this war just yet does that mean we are Yorkshire Pudding eating surrender monkeys?

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:33 pm
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The political parties internal mechanisms don't concern me much. I am saddened by how little progress we've made in the last few decades. Our willingness to intervene in horrible situations abroad is still constrained by the narrowest possible definition of self interest.

I see more sneering, ugly, cynicism in this thread than I do in the actions of Obama or Cameron at the moment.

All nations worry about their place in the world, their regional influence and so on. You have to take almost no interest in the politics of foreigners to not know that. So to question whether we are unique in this failing demonstrates extreme parochialism. But rest assured, such concerns drive events all over the world. Especially in Syria; where Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Britain, France, Turkey and America are all presently competing for influence, along with others.


Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:15 pm
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pcernie wrote:
Do other countries seriously worry about their 'standing in the world' (how would you even quantify that, trade? Tearful phone conversations?)? Or is it just us? And since it's clear to everyone we're just America's bitch, why the hell are we worrying about the international standing of a country the size of ours anyway? I've just never been certain what the 'special relationship' actually means at our end :?

As far as I can tell, China, Russia and whoever else will all still think we're a pack of dicks but carry on trading with us cos the alternative sucks.

Other countries are concerned about their international image, which is why they do everything the can, to be seen to be doing something to avoid military action from America.

They want to be seen by their peers as strong and not as butt kissing yes men to America.

America is looking more and more like an abused child that has grown up to become an abuser. They evolved under colonialism and fought to break away from that, now they seem to want to colonialize all the oil producing countries in the name of freedom and democracy.

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Last edited by big_D on Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:42 am
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big_D wrote:
pcernie wrote:
Do other countries seriously worry about their 'standing in the world' (how would you even quantify that, trade? Tearful phone conversations?)? Or is it just us? And since it's clear to everyone we're just America's bitch, why the hell are we worrying about the international standing of a country the size of ours anyway? I've just never been certain what the 'special relationship' actually means at our end :?

As far as I can tell, China, Russia and whoever else will all still think we're a pack of dicks but carry on trading with us cos the alternative sucks.

Other countries are concerned about their international image, which is why they do everything the can, to be seen to be doing something to avoid military action from America.

They want to be seen by their peers as strong and not as butt kissing yes men to America.

America is looking more and more like an abused child that has grown up. They evolved under colonialism and fought to break away from that, now they seem to want to colonialize all the oil producing countries in the name of freedom and democracy.

I think that while the public are appalled at the use of chemical weapons I think that we were lied to by Blair and so have a much higher threshold to believe this time around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjmjqlOPd6A

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Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:53 am
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