http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... mit-debate

I imagine it would only be a token gesture in London in reality?

In all honesty not driving has seriously benefited me*, so actual motorists of it what you will!

* Work can't send me to hell holes on a whim, I don't spend the thousands a year, and I'd be even fatter if I did drive lol.

Driving in London is a nightmare. When I used to go there, I'd take the train and use the tube if I could, but it was usually cheaper and faster to drive up than take the train... Even the 60 Quid for parking in the NCP behind our offices in Shaftesbury Avenue was cheaper than a return ticket to Totton - and it saved an hour to drive up, which for a 3 hour meeting isn't something to sneezed at.

If I lived and worked in a large city, I'd take public transport and not bother with a car - in fact, when I lived outside Munich, I always used the S-Bahn (fast train) to get into the city (it is a commuter train system that stops at all the villages and suburbs on the way into the city, but manages around 100mph between stops, until it gets to the centre). That also cost 40€ a month for all zones, a day return from Totton to London around 100€! In fact, when I worked in Southampton, I would catch the bus to work and the first couple of months in Bournemouth I used the train.

Living in a small village outside Munich , I needed to have a car to do a large shop - fresh food and the odd essentials I could pick up in the village store, because it didn't make sense to drive 40KM to the next supermarket every day, so I used to do a large shop once a month, then the rest on foot to the store in the next street.

Both daughters manage without cars. One catches the train to Vechta every day for Uni, about 45 minutes, but she gets a free student pass for all trains and buses in Lower Saxony as part of her student package from the Uni. The other daughter lives in a small village miles from anywhere, she works in the next village, which means she has about a 7KM commute to the factory where she is making her apprenticeship, so she rides her pushbike. She does her shopping on the way back from work and we go with her and do a big shop every now and then, with the car.

As to the 20MPH limit, in Germany most cities still have a 30mph limit, with 20mph for heavy pedestrian areas and a 'walking speed' limit for residential streets, because children can play on the street, so the cars have to take extra care, pedestrians have right of way on those streets. Most shopping areas are pedestrian only and deliveries can only be made up to 8 in the morning or after 8 at night.

Is that assured minimum 20 ?


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Frankly, I'd be rather surprised if the average speed at rush hour in any UK city was more than 20mph anyway. I know I worked out my average speed for commute once and it was 18mph, and that's with a relatively free motorway section at the beginning. You could easily set the limit to 20mph between say 07:00-10:00 and 16:00-18:00 within the M60 or M25 and not catch a single person for speeding.

If you 're really serious, just ban all road vehicles. You'd save more lives.

I've been through parts of London at the weekend. Lowering the limit to 20 mph would be pointless - most areas are full of traffic to the point where 20mph would be a luxury. I drive through Birmingham City centre sometimes. 30mph is fine but you do get pedestrians trying to cross at random points. Surely it would be better to have better designed routes/crossing points?

Moreover how much pollution does the average car produce at 20mph? Given that the speed limit on most city roads is 30mph I always figured the car was designed for these speeds. I can safely go at 30mph in 4th gear. Dropping down to 20mph means a lower gear with higher revs.