Thing is you see, the majority of people in the UK (of whatever or no religion) the things they would fight for - the safety of their loved ones, the right to live in peace etc - they already have, so they don't need to fight for them. I'm sure most people around the world would be willing to cope with the shame of not having to fight for those things.

And, to be frank, it appears to be that what ISIS 'believe in' is oppression, brutality, hatred, segregation, murder, torture, drug running, forced marriage and rape. We should be worried that people are leaving to fight for ISIS, yes. Because frankly nobody who reaches adulthood in the UK should be that sodding naive and stupid.

The idea that fighting for any set of beliefs, no matter how lunatic and reprehensible, is somehow a laudable act is one of the most bizarre things I've encountered in quite some time.

I wonder if it's anything to do with trying not to 'arm' the ISIS fighters, after all, the more people who go to join their cause, arming themselves and fighting their 'opressors'; the more of 'them' there are killing 'us'.

I tried really hard to write that sentence without using the 'them and us' statements, but it proved impossible.

Well call me bizarre.

I obviously don't watch/read nearly enough news coverage compared to the rest of you (i.e. ZERO)

I just think there are bigger issues. Maybe we could be tackling the reason(s) ISIS exists? Or maybe poverty, hunger, whatever, but what do I know...

And why does ISIS exist?

I don't [LIFTED] know!

You lot are the ones who are informed on such things.

I'm talking about the bigger issues. Religion, social injustice, unrest etc.

Everybody else in the world is not simply a [LIFTED]. They have motivations which are just as as valid to them as yours are to you. Work on the issues that create these motivations and ISIS no longer feel the need to do what they do, no? It might be a long process, but it needs doing and getting annoyed about it isn't productive.

The Muslims could start by championing basic human rights such as equality and freedom to choose any religion or no religion. The onus is on them in their communities. Rather than viewing normal Islam as being perfect and unquestionable, but ISIS Islam to not be real Islam and 100% bad.

In order to deal with a problem you must first have the courage to actually identify and acknowledge the problem. A secular education is like an immunity, or at least a stronger immune system against irrationality. And to feel part of the culture you're surrounded by; learning to adopt and champion western morality would be an excellent start.

So start by making faith schools illegal, there's my suggestion, open to debate. No one is getting annoyed here by the way.

I personally see it slightly differently - there's an ISIS because a bunch of former Iraqi soldiers saw a power vacuum and sought to exploit it under a banner.
The religion bit is, to my mind, the means to gaining traction in people's minds to 'legitimise' what they're doing in the faithful's eyes.
A lot of support seems to be coming from our chums the Saudis too.
Regardless, a lot of it seems to be attractive to a disaffected youth - give them a cause and stand back, whether it's Islam, UKIP or the NF. And, I suppose, that's how a lot of these things grow.

It would be easier to discuss if there wasn't a concerted effort among liberal westerners to avoid even mentioning Islam in the same breath as IS.

I mean it's 50% of the words, and there's only two words.

Nothing to do with it though apparently.

Just as the IRA had nothing to do with Ireland, presumably.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehous ... t-realise/

I wasn't referring to people in here. People in the UK in general are annoyed - is what I meant.



This is a prime example of something we can actually do something about.

Faith schools I know little about. I was raised Christian by my parents and went to a CofE primary school. But in Cornwall, so did everybody else. We had 2 black people, no gays and no Poles. The first time I went to London blew my mind. I don't think faith schools are the issue, but I'm all for any kind of change/action that might seek to tangibly change the wider political and religious situation that pervades our world these days.