Yes, I'm sure they've got better hardware.

But software...

Yes, but to 99.9% of the population you might as well be talking martian. They couldn't build themselves a computer anymore than they could build themselves a house.

Jon

With the exception of FinalCut Pro, everything else worth having is available on Windows...Actually the Windows versions of CS4 are better than the mac ones...Ok, if you are not careful you may end up with a PC that has Windows 7 on it, but you can always upgrade to Vista...

Fine, they can walk into MediaMarkt and buy 2 Core i7 machines with 6GB each for less than the price of a Mac Pro...

We are getting into familiar territory here and there is never any resolution.

What is the point in continuing this thread if it is going to be a constant battle of...

"Windows is better"
"No it's not, Mac is better"
No, Windows is better"
"Mac is better"
"Windows"
"Mac"
"Windows"
"Mac"
...
ad infinitum.

There is no point!

I finally have the money! I'm going to wait for a while to see if Apple adds USB3 to the Mac Pro any time soon, as that is the only thing that will make it fall behind in a few years time I think (hope).

[quote="FogmeisterThere is no point![/quote]

Indeed, we all know Macs are better, so everyone just shut up!

Don't forget USB3 will be easy to add to a Mac Pro later on, once PCI cards are available and the underlying code in the OS supports it - I would have thought this will be lurking in Snow Leopard, just waiting to be activated by a software update as and when. If that's all that's stopping you buying a Mac Pro, then it wouldn't put me off - it should be an easy upgrade once compatible USB3 cards make it onto the market.

You mean I can run Aperture here on my Dell at work? Excellent! (As I believe the young people say these days.)



Big user of CS4 on both platforms, are you?

Is iTunes better on Windows, Gav?

Where can I get a Windows version of Coda? I've tried komodo and it's SH*T!!!

etc etc etc

With Photoshop CS4 being 64bit on Windows but not on the mac and PC's having access to far better GPU's for the GPGPU functionality, it stands to reason.
Clicky

You can't use Aperture obviously, but it only seems to replicate features you'd get in CS4 anyway. Still, I have to admit I haven't used it, so maybe I'll give the free trial a go.

Yes, but it still runs on Windows.



No, you haven't used it if you think it "seems to replicate features you'd get in CS4 anyway". Its Adobe counterpart is Lightroom, not PS.

Sorry, but that's not the point. The 99.9% could do that but they won't because they have no idea what to ask for. They're going to walk into mediamarkt or PC world or Best Buy and get sold a whalloping pile of crap built by Packard Bell with a rubbish processor, onboard graphics and a 5400 RPM hard drive for the same money as the Core i7 machine that isn't even in even stock because everyone who knows enough to look for that doesn't shop there.

The thing is this : Apple don't make cheap computers but they also don't make crap computers. Any Mac you can buy will at least be a reasonable spec for the job it's expected to do. Yes, you could buy cheaper but that's a minefield for people who aren't educated in the field. And that's why Mac sales are growing - people are fed up with being sold cheap, rubbish kit by the high street PC retailers and have realised that, at the end of the day, you're better off spending more if you're sure what you'll get will do the job and be reliable.

The bald fact of it is this : the retail PC industry has been massively shafting most of it's customers for years. The PC congniscenti have been able to buypass it by building their own. Everybody else got the brown end of the stick. The reason Macs are selling well is not because they're the best possible computers you can buy or make for the money but because even people who don't know USB from a poke in the eye know exactly what they'll be getting.

Jon

Which leaves a huge majority of people with no option of getting into OS X.

A lot of people struggle to justify €200-300 for a computer which will need to last them the best part of a decade.

My girlfriend's daughters had 2 PCs when I met her, they were a 2001 and a 2003 vintage Intel Celeron 1Ghz machines with 256MB RAM! I managed to upgrade one of them to 512MB last week, the other I managed to replace with my old test machine (2004 spec, but AMD Athlon64, 2GB RAM). I also had 2 spare 17" monitors, so the old CRT monitors could go, reducing the electricity bill and saving space.

The oldest daughter (with the remaining Celeron machine) will probably buy herself a new budget machine next year. The Athlon will have to do the other daughter until she leaves school and starts work.

My girlfriend didn't have a computer at all, because she couldn't afford one and couldn't see the point in having one. She now has my old 2005 model laptop. That will have to last her another 4 to 5 years (if she replaces it herself).

Her sister finally replaced her old machine, a 1998 Pentium machine with 16MB RAM, which was still running fine, but couldn't cope with the last eBay website redesign! They replaced that with an Intel Core 2 Quad, 4GB RAM and Vista 64-bit for €499 from MediaMarkt. Okay, it had a bit of c**pware on it, but it is a perfectly serivceable computer, for what they need and they expect that to run for at least 10 years as well! The old Pentium machine was given to a friend as an upgrade for their old 486 machine, which they were still using!

There are various other members of her family, which either don't have computer or have machines from around the turn of the century. I've met a lot of other people around here as well, apart from a friend of mine, who is a systems admin, I don't think any of them has a machine newer than 2004 and none of them would consider a Mac, unless it was under €500, including display...

This is the market for whom OS X would be perfect, but due to the price, they will never enjoy.

Her family and my friends are over the moon now, having somebody who knows a bit about computers, who can come and sort the odd problem out or advise them on new kit. But it is frustrating for me, when the best machines they can afford, I wouldn't wipe my feet on, on a normal day...

Fair enough, but at around £2000 they don't seem to have changed much in price since 1999 when they were at $2500.

I think that we have so many cheaper options these days that the top models seem so much less affordable.

As a coincidence I have just tonight thrown out a receipt for a Canon starwriter



It cost me £880 in 1994