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pcernie
Legend
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:30 pm Posts: 45931 Location: Belfast
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_________________Plain English advice on everything money, purchase and service related:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/
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Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:47 pm |
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big_D
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:25 pm Posts: 10691 Location: Bramsche
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Germany announced they are investing 500M € in the research and development electric vehicles and service stations which tank electricity...
_________________ "Do you know what this is? Hmm? No, I can see you do not. You have that vacant look in your eyes, which says hold my head to your ear, you will hear the sea!" - Londo Molari
Executive Producer No Agenda Show 246
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Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:13 pm |
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DaftFunk
Occasionally has a life
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:39 pm Posts: 478 Location: Peterborough
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why are they ignoring hydrogen??????? It's the way forward.
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Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:16 pm |
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adidan
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:43 pm Posts: 5048
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Exactly, it's a false "green" basis on which they're pushing electric cars. I mean a majority of our electricity still comes from fossil fuels.
_________________ Fogmeister I ventured into Solitude but didn't really do much. jonbwfc I was behind her in a queue today - but I wouldn't describe it as 'bushy'.
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Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:02 pm |
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DaftFunk
Occasionally has a life
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:39 pm Posts: 478 Location: Peterborough
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If you use hydrogen you can refil in seconds just like petrol so no need to charge overnight. The infrastructure is there the petrol stations just need modifying, and it will be just like the transition from 4star to unleaded.
But as usual the good old government love the tax too much so aren't in a huge rush to help save the planet.
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Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:15 pm |
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JJW009
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:58 pm Posts: 8767 Location: behind the sofa
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That is a massive over-simplification. The infrastructure is most definitely not there. For starters, you can put unleaded fuel into regular fuel tank. Hydrogen is a gas that can't be liquefied, and causes metals to become brittle and fail. I am all for the "Hydrogen Economy" concept, but there are a lot of technical hurdles to overcome first.
_________________jonbwfc's law: "In any forum thread someone will, no matter what the subject, mention Firefly." When you're feeling too silly for x404, youRwired.net
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Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:31 pm |
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Linux_User
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:29 pm Posts: 7173
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Not to mention that hydrogen is a tad more combustible than petrol.
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Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:02 pm |
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JJW009
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:58 pm Posts: 8767 Location: behind the sofa
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Actually, that's not a good representation. When a tank full of petrol bursts open and catches fire, it runs out forming a growing inferno which engulfs the vehicle. When a tank of hydrogen ruptures, most of it rushes up into the sky. It burns with a much cooler flame, and the fire will be over very quickly. The rush of freezing cold gas might actually extinguish any fires that are already present by suffocating them and cooling the environment. In an enclosed space, both can cause an explosion but petrol creates the most destruction because it has a much higher energy density. Unless you're running on compressed tritium and you get hit with a fusion bomb, then a petrol bomb is going to do you a lot more damage than a hydrogen pop. Try it if you don't believe me.
_________________jonbwfc's law: "In any forum thread someone will, no matter what the subject, mention Firefly." When you're feeling too silly for x404, youRwired.net
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Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:09 pm |
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Linux_User
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:29 pm Posts: 7173
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Hydrogen is much more readily combustible than petrol. When I think of hydrogen as a fuel source, this comes to mind: 
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Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:45 pm |
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JJW009
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:58 pm Posts: 8767 Location: behind the sofa
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I'm not saying hydrogen is not combustible, but imagine what that amount of petrol going up would look like - especially on the ground.
_________________jonbwfc's law: "In any forum thread someone will, no matter what the subject, mention Firefly." When you're feeling too silly for x404, youRwired.net
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Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:02 am |
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pcernie
Legend
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:30 pm Posts: 45931 Location: Belfast
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Michael Bay says you're a visionary and would like you to return his call 
_________________Plain English advice on everything money, purchase and service related:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/
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Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:57 pm |
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DaftFunk
Occasionally has a life
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:39 pm Posts: 478 Location: Peterborough
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Over simplification perhaps but not by a great deal. All that is needed to change is the pumps and storage, the sites, staff, delivery drivers and routes, they're all there. I can think of a few petrol stations that supply gas in my area, yes it will take time but a transition won't take as long as you'd think.
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Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:02 pm |
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JJW009
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:58 pm Posts: 8767 Location: behind the sofa
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LPG tanks, tankers, hoses and connectors are not suitable for hydrogen. LPG is stored at up to 100psi, where as Hydrogen may be stored at anything up to 120,000 psi. ISO 15869 defines a safe pressure of 10,000psi - over a hundred times greater than required for LPG. Additionally, the calorific value is very low for a given volume. This necessitates larger tanks or more frequent refills. As I said, I'm all for Hydrogen but there are serious technical challenges.
_________________jonbwfc's law: "In any forum thread someone will, no matter what the subject, mention Firefly." When you're feeling too silly for x404, youRwired.net
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Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:08 pm |
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DaftFunk
Occasionally has a life
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:39 pm Posts: 478 Location: Peterborough
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I didn't mean using the same as the LPG, just that it didn't take too long to implement as a norm.
When I get round to it I will be doing the hydrogen water experiment. Where's that 9V battery???
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Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:23 pm |
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